B 2150 clutch issues, scary!

[thankyouTBN]

I depress the clutch to start, AWFUL scary rattling/grinding sound. It’s such a scary sound that when I start the tractor I immediately react and release the clutch, the sound goes away. Very stupidly I’ve been ignoring this. Actually I keep forgetting! I am shocked every time it happens when I start the tractor! I am truly ashamed for letting this issue go. I was in denial.
The other day, I almost never use the mower deck but my other mower broke so I had to put the mower deck on, I was about 3/4 finished cutting 4 acres when I was engaging the PTO, I had the clutch depressed but it would still grind gears whether I was trying to engage it to the 700 RPM or the 500 RPM setting, that was terrifying with the clutch pedal depressed the clutch would not disengage! I couldn’t get it in either gear. I automatically assumed that the clutch is completely shot, I haven’t looked in the shop manual yet. Years ago I split the tractor myself to make internal repair, it’s been so long now I can’t even remember what it was? I don’t think I had to replace the clutch but I know I replaced the lever that locks the rear wheels. I can’t split the tractor now, I don’t have enough time, I’ve got way too many alligators right now to work on the Kubota so I was assuming I was gonna have to take it in ($$$) and I wanted to take it in immediately because I desperately need to use that tractor. I wanted to post a question, I’m sorry it’s so long, I beg, what might be the consensus on that rattling/grinding sound when I depress the clutch to start the tractor? Is the clutch completely shot? Am I gonna have to take it in? I called the dealer and asked for an estimate and they haven’t called me back, any idea of how much it would cost? I haven’t looked at the shop manual yet, last night I thought “pray God maybe it can only just be an adjustment!” I don’t think so! This tractor has been split twice already first time was because the timing gears of wore out/off just after the warranty expired, Kubota covered parts but not labor, I think it only had 450 hours on it at that time and he replaced the clutch also because The splines were almost COMPLETELY gone.
I am pretty terrified! please help!

 

[JWR]

Well I hope I can help a little. I have 3 B2150s. Two sticks and one HST. They have not been made since 1996 (which is 26 years ago...) so you had clutch work done on it under guarantee ..that had to have been more than 20 years ago. OK, anyway back to your issue: If the nasty noise is there with the clutch pedal depressed and goes away when the clutch is let out (engaged) the the culprit is your throw-out bearing. I have never split any tractor much less one of my Kubotas so I do not know if there is any way to get by here... The throwout bearing is certain to be shot so you aren't going to hurt it any more by using it (probably.) Any attempt to lube it is going to get on the clutch and cause worse troubles. Because that tranny is NOT synchromesh I'm sure you know it scrapes gears about 80% of the times you shift it. The trans continuing to scrape when you have the clutch depressed means the throwout bearing is shot bad enough that you really are not able to disengage the clutch fully. My wife is yelling supper so I have to pick up here a little later. Good luck!

Where are you?

 

[JWR]

One last question: With the transmission in neutral, you can start and run the engine without the noise, right ? Forget depressing the clutch pedal for the moment.

If the answer is YES you just have a minor mechanical issue (the throw-out bearing) where it will probably be 50 times the cost of the part in labor to fix it, replacing the bearing.

If the answer is NO (e.g. you still have the noise even in neutral with your foot off the clutch pedal and the engine running) then it is more serious and something more than just the throw-out bearing is bad.

Unlikely. I bet it is just the bearing.

 

[thankyouTBN]

Well I hope I can help a little. I have 3 B2150s. Two sticks and one HST. They have not been made since 1996 (which is 26 years ago...) so you had clutch work done on it under guarantee ..that had to have been more than 20 years ago. OK, anyway back to your issue: If the nasty noise is there with the clutch pedal depressed and goes away when the clutch is let out (engaged) the the culprit is your throw-out bearing. I have never split any tractor much less one of my Kubotas so I do not know if there is any way to get by here... The throwout bearing is certain to be shot so you aren't going to hurt it any more by using it (probably.) Any attempt to lube it is going to get on the clutch and cause worse troubles. Because that tranny is NOT synchromesh I'm sure you know it scrapes gears about 80% of the times you shift it. The trans continuing to scrape when you have the clutch depressed means the throwout bearing is shot bad enough that you really are not able to disengage the clutch fully. My wife is yelling supper so I have to pick up here a little later. Good luck!

Where are you?

Thank you very much JWR! Yes, your knowledge was VERY helpful! You set my mind (a little more) at ease!

 

[thankyouTBN]

One last question: With the transmission in neutral, you can start and run the engine without the noise, right ? Forget depressing the clutch pedal for the moment.

If the answer is YES you just have a minor mechanical issue (the throw-out bearing) where it will probably be 50 times the cost of the part in labor to fix it, replacing the bearing.

If the answer is NO (e.g. you still have the noise even in neutral with your foot off the clutch pedal and the engine running) then it is more serious and something more than just the throw-out bearing is bad.

Unlikely. I bet it is just the bearing.

I just went out and tried what you suggested. At first I was a little confused because I have to depress the clutch pedal to start it there’s a electrical safety interlock, but I thought I’d try a bunch of different combinations, Clutch in, clutch out, clutch in, in gear, clutch in out of gear etc.. I wanted to say, “it’s funny, now this is an intermittent problem!” It didn’t rattle when I started it with the clutch disengaged which was very unusual, and then I tried depressing the clutch pedal putting it in 500 RPM pushing in the clutch pedal putting it in 700 RPM it went in gear both times (whereas before I couldn’t get it in gear at all! it would just grind the gears). Problem fixed itself! . Oh, I forgot, I was fiddling around pushing the clutch in letting it out shifting gears and only once during that process did I get that horrible clattering noise. I find that very strange. Seemed before it happened every single time I started the tractor.
Thank you so much for taking time to read my lengthy post and to post you’re very helpful detailed response!
I’m a little ashamed to say that I live in Southeast New York State, 70 miles north of New York City, southern ulster county, it’s very nice here. I hate winter though. And I hate mosquitoes.

 

[thankyouTBN]

I just went out and tried what you suggested. At first I was a little confused because I have to depress the clutch pedal to start it there’s a electrical safety interlock, but I thought I’d try a bunch of different combinations, Clutch in, clutch out, clutch in, in gear, clutch in out of gear etc.. I wanted to say, “it’s funny, now this is an intermittent problem!” It didn’t rattle when I started it with the clutch disengaged which was very unusual, and then I tried depressing the clutch pedal putting it in 500 RPM pushing in the clutch pedal putting it in 700 RPM it went in gear both times (whereas before I couldn’t get it in gear at all! it would just grind the gears). Problem fixed itself! . Oh, I forgot, I was fiddling around pushing the clutch in letting it out shifting gears and only once during that process did I get that horrible clattering noise. I find that very strange. Seemed before it happened every single time I started the tractor.
Thank you so much for taking time to read my lengthy post and to post you’re very helpful detailed response!
I’m a little ashamed to say that I live in Southeast New York State, 70 miles north of New York City, southern ulster county, it’s very nice here. I hate winter though. And I hate mosquitoes.

 

[JWR]

So far so good but I'm afraid the problem would not permanently fix itself. Of course wait and see... So far as I know, the only way to get in there and replace the throw-out bearing is to split the tractor (but do not go by me as I have not done that!) You are tempted to try to lubricate it somehow but that risks (as I said before) getting grease on the clutch plate and creating new problems. And throw-out bearings are sealed and not meant for lubrication anyway. One thing you may want to try is see if there is any kind of "peep hole" (in the chassis / bell housing area) where one could get access to the area of the clutch and throw-out bearing with an endoscope.

You can buy little endoscopes that are as small as 1/4" in diameter with stiff but bendable cable leading to the camera end. These things have a nice bright LED light built in to the tip around the lens. Several feet of cable that plugs into your smart phone. They are under $20 on Amazon. That would allow you to explore the area in there, look around, and maybe turn up significant real information as opposed to my speculation !

So were you able to mow that last acre of the 4 acres ?

Good luck!

 

[thankyouTBN]

Thanks again JWR!
Yeah I seem to remember vaguely there’s a large-ish triangular shaped rubber knockout plug… (?). I didn’t even check yet. I think there’s one there, I think I’ve been seeing this thing for decades and never really knew what it was for.
Oh no, I don’t want to try to lubricate it, I’d rather split the tractor and replace it.
I got myself a slightly better quality borescope from Amazon, was $157, I got it because a female acquaintance of mine’s toilet was flushing VERY slowly and after removing the toilet I did actually find the obstruction (funny story ) wedged in the trap of the toilet with the endoscope. Took two hours and a lot of effort ramming that thing out of the trap, this was a freebie for a friend. I got the 16 foot long borescope because I had no idea where this obstruction might be. It works fine with only inserting it a couple inches, I figured better too long than too short. Just like you said with the LED lights on the end, this one has a side camera too so I can look to the sides, turns out to be very handy. Thank you! That’s a good tip, I definitely should see if I could poke around in there with that (what for me is an expensive) endoscope that already have in my possession! (My friend never reimbursed me for the $190 of repair(s) expenses, didn’t offer me a penny towards the $157 camera and didn’t offer me any money for two, two hour round trip drives to get there, and I brought all my own food for 2, one week visits. (was fixing other stuff also, sump pump, etc.) (Sorry about complaining and the TMI, the borescope triggers me, I forgot I even have it! I like to try to be helpful but I think I get taken advantage of.)
Thanks again JWR!
Yes I was able to finish mowing and then with your helpful information in mind I was emboldened to put my homemade forklift forks back on the three point hitch and move a whole *bunch* of crap that I had to put back before I take the tractor in to get it fixed!

 

[JWR]

Dear me; if your friends treat you that way I hate to think what your enemies must act like !