Backhoe Backhoe for John Deere 4720

Deere4720 · Dec 26, 2015

Hi everyone,
I just joined this forum, but I have been reading it for some time and have learned a lot. I bought a 2008 JD 4720 ehydro this past summer for use on a hobby farm. (30 cow calf pairs, hay ground, etc). I was afraid it was too small, but I have been amazed by its power and usefulness. I am considering buying a backhoe to mount on it, and I'm looking for some feedback. I am still trying to justify it, but I would like to think that it's something I'll buy and wonder how I did without it!

What backhoes have you folks put on a tractor like this? I have been studying the Woods BH90X. (I haven't priced a John Deere, but I'm guessing it would be more expensive) I think it be a good fit, but the local dealer doesn't know much about it. For those that have the BH90X, how do you like it? Does it do everything you wanted? I know it won't be the same as a full size machine, but I don't want to buy a dinky toy either. I would be doing a lot of ditch cleaning, culvert installs, and some tree stumps here and there maybe. Here is what I am thinking:
BH90X
PTO powered hydraulics
Manual thumb (since they are so proud of the hyd one. I'm thinking I can make it a hyd one myself later on.)
18" bucket

The main problem I have is that the local dealer (or anyone else) doesn't have one I can physically go look at and sit on. I have used a full size TLB a few times, but I have never been around one of these. I would really like to "kick the tires" on it so to speak.

Any feedback or insight current owners of a Woods or John Deere machine could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

jenkinsph · Dec 27, 2015

How much does the optional hydraulic pump add to the cost? What is the gallons/minute? Are you sure you need this expense in lieu of the tractor power beyond circuit?

I would think a 9ft hoe would be a good fit for your tractor. Looking at the pictures I would wonder if you can get cylinder guards for the rear stabilizers as I would recommend them. Also make sure the new backhoe will fit your tractor as I think their is a difference between open station and cab requirements.

Deere4720 · Dec 27, 2015

The PTO pump was about $650 I think. I don't currently have a power beyond hose on my tractor-just the single scv. Is the power beyond something I could add you think? Maybe that would be a cheaper alternative. I have an open station, so will have to look into the compatibility a little more. Thank you for the input!

Furu · Dec 27, 2015

I have a BH90X on my 4720. LOVE it. Make certain you get the subframe, I would never tie in with a three point on a BH. I use the PB off the tractor to power it and it works great, plenty of flow. Don't know about cost comparison to the PTO pump but $650 for the pump and all the requirements (assuming there is at least a small reservoir) that seems cheap. The PTO would also require a higher engine speed thus more fuel burn. I mostly run mine with the engine near idle as no more flow that that is required.
Look around at what a PB would cost. Not hard to install but actually doubt it would be less than 650 because Deere loves their stuff.
Check with Green Farm Parts: John Deere Parts Discount Store I really like them

or Keeping It Green: Your Premier Online Source for all John Deere Parts

I have the manual thumb as the cost for the hydraulic is about 1200-1500 last time I checked and I just have not been able to justify that. Many times after using it with the manual thumb I swear I am going to upgrade but then I cool down and tell myself: "Just how often do you really use the thumb can you justify it." As a result I still have the manual thumb but still want the hydraulic one.

RoyJackson · Dec 27, 2015

Deere4720 said:
The PTO pump was about $650 I think. I don't currently have a power beyond hose on my tractor-just the single scv. Is the power beyond something I could add you think? Maybe that would be a cheaper alternative. I have an open station, so will have to look into the compatibility a little more. Thank you for the input!

I think you could add the Power Beyond. The good thing is the 4720 is a current model and the kit should still be available. I expect you'd have more pressure available for the backhoe.
I have a 448 'hoe that came with the 4520. I use it now and then, but if I could have talked the dealer to split it from the tractor, I probably would have...and, I probably would have regretted that decision. When you need one, a 'hoe is pretty handy!

kevin37b · Dec 27, 2015

Roy , how are you ? Always enjoy your posts , down to earth no cowpoop . Have another GOODYEAR , Kevin .

RoyJackson · Dec 27, 2015

kevin37b said:
Roy , how are you ? Always enjoy your posts , down to earth no cowpoop .

We're doing quite well, Kevin...and thank you!

Deere4720 · Dec 27, 2015

I'll have to do some price comparison. If it's not too hard to add the power beyond, I might go that route. I would definitely like to not run the tractor very fast unless needed. I forgot to add that I was planning on a subframe too. I've read too much about splitting a tractor I half without it. I need to call a few dealers and get some quotes. It sounds like the prices can vary a fair amount between different dealers. What you said is spot on, Roy. I wouldn't use this thing a ton, but when you need one you normally need it sooner rather than later!

jenkinsph · Dec 28, 2015

Deere4720 said:
I'll have to do some price comparison. If it's not too hard to add the power beyond, I might go that route. I would definitely like to not run the tractor very fast unless needed. I forgot to add that I was planning on a subframe too. I've read too much about splitting a tractor I half without it. I need to call a few dealers and get some quotes. It sounds like the prices can vary a fair amount between different dealers. What you said is spot on, Roy. I wouldn't use this thing a ton, but when you need one you normally need it sooner rather than later!

You have mentioned running the tractor fast because of the pto pump. Why do you think that is necessary? There seems to be a myth floating around the forums that to use the pto that it has to turn at the full rpm in use. While mowers and some implements work best at the higher speeds some implements work better at lower speeds. If you compare the tractors hydraulic pump gear driven off the engine, it can pump at speeds from an idle to full speed, the speed and output in gpm are linear for the most part. Same is true using a pto driven pump, you can adjust the engine speed to get the flow you want for digging.

Another example is a post hole digger, most are run at an idle, which corresponds to much lower pto speeds. It would be very difficult to work with a phd running at 540 rpms, and could be dangerous too.

RoyJackson · Dec 28, 2015

jenkinsph said:
You have mentioned running the tractor fast because of the pto pump.

Good point...
The 448 backhoe manual recommends engine RPM not to exceed 2100, which is about 300 RPM less than PTO RPM. I normally run the engine between 1500 and 2000 RPM when using the backhoe. I am using the tractor's hydraulics, not a PTO pump.

Deere4720 · Jan 13, 2016

I have been requesting quotes from a few different places, and it seems that somewhere around 11,000 for the backhoe, mech thumb, pto pump, and subframe is where they all stand. One of the places I have caught the name of several times on this website is Rosseels out of MI. They sent me back the most organized quote so far, breaking down the price of each item and explaining things well. One thing that was mentioned in their email is that the subframe for my tractor will work as long as I have a front end loader. My question to those of you that have one of these on a similar tractor....Can the loader still be taken off and on your tractor with this subframe on? I love how quickly and easily the 400CX loader comes off and on, and I don't want to lose that functionality.

Furu · Jan 14, 2016

Deere4720 said:
I have been requesting quotes from a few different places, and it seems that somewhere around 11,000 for the backhoe, mech thumb, pto pump, and subframe is where they all stand. One of the places I have caught the name of several times on this website is Rosseels out of MI. They sent me back the most organized quote so far, breaking down the price of each item and explaining things well. One thing that was mentioned in their email is that the subframe for my tractor will work as long as I have a front end loader. My question to those of you that have one of these on a similar tractor....Can the loader still be taken off and on your tractor with this subframe on? I love how quickly and easily the 400CX loader comes off and on, and I don't want to lose that functionality.

I can take off the loader anytime I want on my JD4720 with Woods BH90X and subframe. I just don't want to. Done it twice in 8 years. I would not ever use the BH without the loader on as the loader is a point of stabilization.

jenkinsph · Jan 14, 2016

Deere4720 said:
I have been requesting quotes from a few different places, and it seems that somewhere around 11,000 for the backhoe, mech thumb, pto pump, and subframe is where they all stand. One of the places I have caught the name of several times on this website is Rosseels out of MI. They sent me back the most organized quote so far, breaking down the price of each item and explaining things well. One thing that was mentioned in their email is that the subframe for my tractor will work as long as I have a front end loader. My question to those of you that have one of these on a similar tractor....Can the loader still be taken off and on your tractor with this subframe on? I love how quickly and easily the 400CX loader comes off and on, and I don't want to lose that functionality.

Before spending $11,000 on a backhoe attachment on your tractor I would suggest you consider buying a used 110tlb. I bought the 110 first new with cab in 2005 with 7 function hoe and all hydraulics including top and tilt. Worked great but found that for a lot of my jobs that I wanted a separate tractor for 3 point work. So I bought the 4520 cab in 2009 without fel and moved all the hydraulics to the rear. This combination has worked well for me as the 4520 is much easier to use in tight spaces and I seldom have to remove the hoe from the 110. Their are other benefits to the 110, full belly pan, fixed stronger fel, front aux. hydraulics for a grapple or 4 in one bucket, 10' backhoe with aux. circuit for thumb or hydraulic auger or hammer. Creep to reposition is a very real benefit combined with being able to reach the front fel control from the backhoe seat.

I would suggest you do a little searching for a used 110 before putting that much money in a backhoe for the 4720. Having both the 110tlb and the 4520 cab (60hp.) I know the differences and short comings of what you are proposing and know for a fact that I would not do it.

Deere4720 · Jan 15, 2016

I definitely would not take the loader off with the hoe still on. Honestly the hoe will only be on the tractor occasionally. If I could find a very nice used hoe attachment I would just buy it. It will probably spend more time in the shed then on the tractor. Most of the 110s I have seen are pretty pricey, and I don't think I would use it enough to justify having another whole machine to care for.

jenkinsph · Jan 15, 2016

Deere4720 said:
I definitely would not take the loader off with the hoe still on. Honestly the hoe will only be on the tractor occasionally. If I could find a very nice used hoe attachment I would just buy it. It will probably spend more time in the shed then on the tractor. Most of the 110s I have seen are pretty pricey, and I don't think I would use it enough to justify having another whole machine to care for.

If you would only use it occasionally then it would be cheaper to rent. This also allows you to choose the right size machine for the job. You may want to consider a used mini excavator too. I would consider a good used hoe for your tractor for about half of the cost of a new one if you can find one. My point is I would be leary of spending $11k on a new hoe for an 8 year old tractor and not loosing too much money trading later on. I suspect buying a mini excavator about 3 ton size used would allow you to own it for a few years and get more of your money back.

jloven · Jan 15, 2016

I have a 4720 and added a 448 backhoe that I purchased used for around $3k a few years ago. I had it on a 3720 so when I traded tractors, I had to purchase the backhoe bracket (LVB26163) for the hoe which I found on eBay for $300 shipped to my door from a nice guy in Massachusetts. He also sold me the creep control off his 485 hoe that he was not using for $250. I ended up having to buy the bracket for the 4720 new (LVB26148, list for $1150). This bracket permanently mounts on the 4720 and provides connection to the tractor frame for the backhoe. I also had to buy the power beyond kit (LVB26066 list for $400). I got both as part of the deal with the tractor, so I paid $1,100 for both. Finally I had to purchase the creep to re-position cable for the 4720 tractor for $100. So, it took around $1800 to move the 448 backhoe from a 3720 to my new 4720.
Its a great backhoe and I wouldn't take anything for my setup now. Easy to get on and off and digs very well for its size. I never thought I would use it as much as I do. I probably take it on and off 8-10 times each year. I always keep the loader on for weight and balance.
I would suggest you look around for a used 448 or 485 backhoe. There is a 448 that looks to be in great shape just outside of Charlotte (on craigslist) and the asking price is $3k. Probably can get it for $2500. 4000 series backhoe brackets are all over craigslist and eBay for less than $300. Even if you put $2500 in getting it connected, you are less than half of your quoted price plus you are getting a John Deere designed backhoe attachment with no PTO pump. It was a no-brainer for me plus I like these type of projects.

GManBart · Jan 15, 2016

I'm thinking along the lines of what Jenkinsph said. Renting for a few times a year, or buying a dedicated loader/backhoe sounds like it might make more sense.

For around $11K you can buy a used backhoe that will be far more capable, and not tie up your primary tractor....especially if you're only going to use it a few times a year. I also suspect it would be much, much easier to sell a loader/backhoe if you find you no longer need it, where selling a backhoe attachment is going to be harder...far fewer people shopping for them, and then they have to own the right tractor to consider it.

I'd go look for something like these....they won't really decrease in value unless you abuse them, and will do way more work in a shorter period of time:

https://wichita.craigslist.org/grq/5390921470.html

https://wichita.craigslist.org/hvd/5365787715.html

https://wichita.craigslist.org/hvd/5328990105.html

https://topeka.craigslist.org/hvo/5403689321.html

https://stjoseph.craigslist.org/grd/5401456957.html

Grandad4 · Jan 16, 2016

There are lots of different ways to go regarding a backhoe: add-on attachment, rental, old-beater full size TLB, another dedicated TLB, mini-ex, etc. There is nothing wrong with the add-on attachment, though. That has been a very practical, useful tool for us for more than 10 years. It's here when we need it, easy to install/remove when needed, capable of doing anything we need done and doesn't take up a lot of space. Everyone's situation is unique, of course, so by all means look at all the options, but having a BH attachment for your tractor can definitely work.

Not to muddy the water, but Deere and Woods aren't the only choices in backhoes and there is some seriously good equipment offered by others as well. Bradco has always stood out for well-made, rugged BH's, and other makes such as Bush Hog or Wallenstein are out there also.

Important to go with a subframe mounted BH for serious work. Any of the major suppliers will be compatible with the FEL on your tractor since the loader balances the weight of the BH. Look at the individual subframe and mounting designs offered by the various manufacturers. The better designs tuck the BH close to the rear of the tractor rather than sticking out, and have a subframe that does not reduce ground clearance significantly.