Backhoe backhoe plumbing

   / backhoe plumbing #21  
pic 3
 

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   / backhoe plumbing #23  
I think my setup is the same as Pineridge's setup. Remember that we had all solid steel lines to the manifold before the modifications were made for the BH.

I think this should work for you.

If you need any more pics let me know. I took these in a hurry. Might be able to get better pics of manifold in the daylight and the FEL in the air.

Hope this helped. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / backhoe plumbing #24  
<font color="blue"> recently built my own backhoe for my 2001 TC25D tractor and have it hooked up to a pto pump with a seperate reservoir. The setup works ok, but I didn't size the pump to the hose and fittings correctly so it bogs down if I go to full actuation. I went with 1/4 ID hose because that is what New Holland uses on their 758C BH. I guess my flow rate 11.6 gpm is just a bit too high. I noticed that the pump on the tractor puts out 7.1 gpm and that seems to work fine with their backhoe so that is what I am trying to do.
</font>

I've been thinking about your problem a bit. Seems we've all been trying to help you figure out the power beyond plumbing. I don't think this will solve your problem. (Never tell the mechanic what you think is wrong with the car - because he will fix that AND what the real problem was /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

Your tractor should have enough HP to run a 11.6GPM pump.


Hydraulic Calcs

HP = pressure*GPM/1714

=2,250 psi*11.4 GPM/1714 = 15 HP. Your tractor has more PTO HP than that.

(I'm assuming a price PTO pump). If you have the 21 GPM pump you will require 27.6 PTO HP - that would be a problem.

Maybe you have a restriction in your plumbing somewhere.

What RPM are you running the machine at? If you reduce PTO speed, you will reduce the flow rate, but the pressure will be the same.
 
   / backhoe plumbing
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Hank,
Thanks a bunch for the pictures. They are exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to print them out and take them to my dealer. I guess I can buy a kit from them to duplicate your connections.


Hazmat,
I think you are right. I just worded it differently. I am trying to push too much oil through the lines. To answer your question, I have tried running the tractor at various rpm settings. First at 1800, then 2000, and lately at 2200. The dealer told me not to tun the tractor any lower than about 1800 for an extended period of time. These tractors weren't designed to run that low; the temp goes up and the pumps (oil, coolant, and hyd) aren't optimized. He has seen some problems with that. Anyway I'm off the topic here. If figured that by using the tractor hydraulics I can drop my flow rate from 11.6 to 7.1 while gaining some simplicity and cooler running BH oil. My oil keeps climbing in my reservoir that I made. It is a 12 gallon reservoir trying to keep to the 1 gallon per 1 gpm flow rate convention. The bottom line is that 1/4 hose works with the NH 758C and the tractor hydraulics. After all that is the NH setup. One more thing, I do have two 1/2 quick connectors between the pump to control valve and the control valve to reservoir. I have factored that out of the equation because the NH setup uses quick connectors as well.

The only other thing I can think of is that I am using Prince's series type control valves for the BH arm (and parallel control valves for the stabilizers). Maybe these series valves do something to the oil flow and restrict it more than the parallel variety. I think the NH 758C comes with a Gresen parallel valve. I was told that series valves redirect the flow so that if two cylinders are actuated they will both see the same pressure and flow. Parallel valves require you to feather the control lever because the cylinder seeing the least pressure moves first. Just a thought...

One question I have is the BH to tractor hose ID on the NH setup. Is it 1/2?
 
   / backhoe plumbing
  • Thread Starter
#26  
I went to my local dealer at lunch today. I showed him Hanks pictures and he agreed that is the common way to do it. He is going to work up a part list or kit and price for me just to compare my options.

I couldn't tell from Hanks pictures, but does the hose coming from the FEL replace one of the metal tubes, or does it run out of the power beyond port in the valve (which I assume usually has a plug in it). A picture here might help.
 
   / backhoe plumbing #27  
Hi,

I don't have any pics of my tractor before the dealer modifications, but I would bet that it did have a steel line in place of the hose from the FEL valve to the manifold block. I think they just replaced the line with hose so I could easily switch back and forth.

Hope this helps and let me know how you make out.
 
   / backhoe plumbing #28  
KPK,

I love your BH ... It is beautiful. Did you buys plans for it? If not would you share them?

How much did you spend on everything?

Rodger
 
   / backhoe plumbing
  • Thread Starter
#29  
I do have a drawing package for it as I designed it using Pro/E. For those who don't know what Pro/E is, it's 3D CAD software. More expensive (but more capable) than Autocad which was one of the initial CAD packages to come out in 2D. Now Autocad has 3D capability, but it is nothing like Pro/E or Solidworks. Anyway, enough of that, back to the drawings.

As with most projects, I learned some stuff along the way and tweaked some things here and there. As the drawings currently stand they could be used to fabricate the backhoe. However things like tolerances, hole dimensions, and general fit of some of the parts will need attention.

I got all of my hydraulic stuff from Prince as I said before. All in all the BH cost me about $7500. I didn't figure that much initiallly but several things came into play which elevated the cost. First of all the price of steel went up significantly...like 75% since January. I've been told this is due to the high demand in China right now. I bought the bucket instead of making it just to save some aggrevation, so that added a tiny bit of cost. I also upgraded the control valve from the standard parallel type to serial type to yield better feathering performance and that cost a tad more. Also I ended up with a "power pack" so-to-speak which consists of a reservoir, pump, and filters. I could use this to power a log splitter or some other equipment if I desire, but I probably wound't do it again to power the BH. So if you factor that out of the cost it would drop the price by about $400. It is just more stuff to load onto the tractor which takes time. The advantage of using a seperate oil system to keep things seperated and safe versus the advantage of using the tractor's hydraulics which are easy to connect to and have cooling built in just doesn't cut it in my book. I would use the tractor hydraulics (like NH does with their 758C BH) in the future. One other thing is that I couldn't find a suitable trunion mounted cylinder so I had to make an adapting "sleeve" that accepts a standard rod end cylinder and has trunions sticking out the sides in the appropriate place. That cost me extra.

I was actually thinking of approaching several equipment manufacturers to see if they would be interested in looking at my design. It is just about a turn key solution for them. If not, than I might consider sellling or distributing the plans/drawings in some way. After all it took me quite a bit of time to model the thing, make drawings, and fabricate it. Then of course there is the media problem. Everyone can accept paper I guess, but DXF files or straight Pro/E files might work as well. That way I will be transfering electronic data which is faster and cheaper and people can print out their own drawings. By the way, there are many. I figure I have about 70 give or take. They consist of assembly drawings, part drawings, and some purchased parts like bushings, etc.

Sorry for the long email. I kind of spewed a lot of thoughts out here.
 
   / backhoe plumbing
  • Thread Starter
#30  
By the way. In talking with my dealer I have located the appropriate kit which will enable me to get rid of the pto pump and reservoir and use the tractor hydraulics. The part number is 716397016. When a dealer orders a BH for a customer they order three kits: BH, subframe kit, and hydraulic kit. The hydraulic kit costs $189.00 and includes all the hoses, fittings, etc to connect the BH to the tractor. This p/n is for the TC25D family of tractors and will work for the 756, 757, and 758 BHs.
 

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