backhoe

   / backhoe #1  

bluecarpenter

Silver Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
110
Location
central missouri
Tractor
CK30 HST and allis chalmers b with belly sickle at dads farm. Yanmar 2210DB , ford 8N .farmall cub
just ordered the cadplan 821 backhoe. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif can't wait to get it and start working on it along with my daughters gocart. I like to be busy. I plan on using metal that I pickup in my travels. but I may buy the pieces from metkit that have the machined holes already in them. but not sure.
Any advise from ya'll out there?
I have the tools that I need to do all of it just need to buy the big drill bits but I'm still toying with the Idea. want to keep the cost down.
some of the main booms out there I have seen have a slight bend in them. does that aid in digging closer to straight down. or what?. is it nessasary? for the first one I may just leave it straight. The specs say that it digs 9ft down. is there any body out there that can tell me a little bit about it? wanting to use it to dig a small goldfish pond and also dig out my lagoon. and other projects. thanks mark
 
   / backhoe #2  
I have been considering building my own backhoe as well as looking at a lot of available designs. Some of the things I learned:

Many excavators have a bend in the boom so it does not hit the edge of the hole. This allows a more verticle edge on the end of the trench closest to the machine.

The bend also allows in some cases for the transport overhang length to be reduced - there is more room for the bucket to tuck in behind the boom.

I think the bent design looks cooler as well.

Most of the straight boom designs appear to be made out of a single piece of sqaure or rectangular tube while the more complex shaped booms have laser-cut sides welded at the edges or cut and formed sides welded together along a central seam. The complex bends would be beyond the ability of almost all do-it-yourself'ers, but the laser-cut or torch-cut flat sides design could be done in a home shop.

The more complex shape allows the design to put the metal where it does the most good and maintain clearances in areas where a straight tube section would get in the way. Typically the boom would taper at its base and tip to a fairly small pivot mechanism with a tall section in the middle to provide stiffness and mounting locations for the boom and dipper cylinders.

A big design decision is the placement of the boom cylinder. Putting it under the boom gives the cylinder its best mechanical advantage for lifting. This would perhaps be good for pulling stumps or craning stuff. Putting the boom cylinder on the top makes it do its lifting in retraction mode so overall lifting capacity is reduced, but down-force would be maximized as well as keeping the cylinder rod and seals away from dirt, rocks, and possible contact with the bucket itself. Some larger excavators use dual boom cylinders on the side, getting the advantage of using them in "push" mode and also getting them out of the way somewhat.

Another issue to consider is side-to-side stiffness. The wider the boom design and pivots, the easier it is to make it strong in the side to side direction. This is useful in sliding dirt out of the way, or sliding it back into the trench when back-filling. The swing mechanism needs to be designed with a corresponding amount of force.

The swing mechanism is an area of the design that separates the toys from the tools. Most BH owners and users I have talked to indicate that a full 180 degree swing is important to have. To achieve this requires a more complex design such as dual swing cylinders, a compund linkage, a chain, or a rack-and-pinion type of setup. The ability to have available quick slew rate, high swing forces (for back-filling), smooth control, and gentle stopping at the end of travel are important considerations in the design of the swing mechanism and its hydraulics.

The hydraulic controls is another area that can make the difference between a BH that is merely functional and one that is highly productive. The ability to run two, three, or even four functions at once is important. Hydraulic cushioning of the swing mechanism might be nice to have. Differing pressure bypass settings for different functions might be appropriate. The layout of the controls, 4-lever vs 2-joysticks, vs foot pedals, etc. The ability to add a hydraulic thumb or a motor-powered device like a jack-hammer might be nice to have.

CNC laser or plasma-cut parts would be my choice for the way to go in a kit. Just make sure the kit design takes the most advantage as it can of the capabilities of the CNC process. It costs the same for the laser to cut a well-thought-out design as it does to cut a poor design.

A well-thought out laser-cut parts design would have all the holes placed, even if they might need to be drilled and reamed to precise sizes. It would have features like tabs, slots, an extra corner or two cut into the part to aid in alignment and fixturing during welding. It would avoid using multiple identical copies of a part for the sake of ease of fabrication. The left and right copies of a part need not be identical - one can have extra holes or different hole sizes or whatever might make sense. A good laser design will have fewer parts in more complex shapes - not a bunch of simple rectangles butted together.

The laser can add a lot to the looks - radiuses on all corners, for example. Graceful, swooping curves instead of straight lines. A "style" and "look" can be carried through the design to make the machine look more high-tech.

- Rick
 
   / backhoe
  • Thread Starter
#3  
the plans that I am getting is from cadplans.com. The boom is a straight version. the swing is 130 degrees so I figure that I will be modifing that part of it. just not sure about the boom yet have seen a lot of straight booms out there and they seam to do fine. guess I could always built 2 booms curved and straight. see which one I liked. mark
 
   / backhoe #4  
I think I was rambling a bit about the "perfect" backhoe design.

The other tradeoff is of course cost or in the case of a self-built project, time. The "perfect" design takes by definition infinite time to create or has infinite cost on the "Good, Cheap, or Quick - Pick Two" tradeoff scale..

I would think that the CADplans design will work just fine with the exception that the swing arc of only 130 degrees might be a bit limiting so you might want to look at changing it. I think the easiest way to increase the swing arc is to go with two swing cylinders, one on each side. The only tricky part is that there has to be a space left in the middle, so they need to be either under the pivot frame, or the pivot frame needs to have seperate top and bottom pivot pins with a gap in between for the pivot cylinders to operate in.

- Rick
 
   / backhoe #5  
Metkit offers pre cut and drilled steel for all of the cadplans products for a reasonable price. They also offer a "Super boom" which has the "curved" design. They also offer an extend -a- hoe option.

I bought the Cadplans 808 plans, which is the 3pt version of the 821. After viewing their 3pt design, I decided I could do better, so I redesigned that to allow for 180 deg. swing and hydraulic stabilizers like a traditional backhoe. As soon as I get the $$ for the kit, I will be starting it.
 
   / backhoe
  • Thread Starter
#6  
on the extend-a-hoe how much does it move it or extend it and is it worth the extra dough they want for it? I will be putting hydraulic stablelizers on it too but I think that I can design them myself. but the extend-a-hoe i'm not sure about. I would like to see one on the 800 series so that I could see how it works. what is the price about $40 bucks I thinks.
does anyone know how far down you can dig with the 821 before the boom hits the edge of the hole. thanks mark
 
   / backhoe #7  
I would have to review the plans, but I think it moved it around 2ft.

You could email cadplans for the details. For whatever reason, the bracket at the top of the boom which holds the mounts for the boom and extend cylinders and pivot point is smaller than the standard brackets. So I have redesigned them with Autocad along with the redesigning the 3pt mount (I got the 808 plans which includes the 821) to include traditional stabilizers and 180 deg swing. Other than that, the plans were excellent
 
   / backhoe
  • Thread Starter
#8  
got the plans the other day. looking the parts over. don't understand the difference between a single stage and dual stage pump. it is calling for a 6GPM single stage i guess i can come up with something close to that. what kind of valve body shoud I look for I would like to add hydrolic stableizers at a later date. they call for a 4 section open center and adjustable relief. says all sections are 4 way ??? 3 position spring centered. that means forward and back spring to center that much i can get what is the all sections is 4 way?
found a 5 spool 7 GPM valve at ( surpluscenter.com ) it has open center with adj. relief pre set. was wondering if that would work. don't want to spend a fortune on one but want to get the right one. would like some input on this. thanks mark
 

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