Bad day brush hogging... need FEL advice

smithdenny · Oct 21, 2021

Yesterday I'm trying to help a neighbor by brush hogging his partially cleared field. Because the grass was higher than the hood of my 2014 Kiota DK50 (400+ hours) I used the FEL bucket close to the ground trying to find any stumps or rocks before the brush hog did. I found one with the front left corner of the bucket. Impact was pretty hard. After I got home I noticed the curl function would not curl back as much as it had before but it did operate with maybe 85% of normal movement. I removed the bucket and parked the tractor in the shop. This morning I find the curl cylinders moving a total of about 1/2 inch curl up to curl down with the rods retracted in the cylinders. I disconnected the cylinders from the FEL brackets to find the problem is apparently in the cylinders, still little movement of the rods in both cylinders unloaded. Did I bend the rods in both cylinders? I can not see any damage by simply looking at the cylinders. The FEL will lift and lower normally. How can I test to determine the extent of the damage? Would one bound (or otherwise damaged) cylinder keep the other from operating also? Any advice would be most appreciated, thanks.

Parts are already on order to repair the broken brush hog that later found its own stump. I did say it was a bad day...

TractorGuy · Oct 21, 2021

Sounds like it might pulled the piston bolt if the rod moves with the cylinder retracted. Try extending both all the way out and see if there is any movement in the rods. You may have to pull them apart to see exactly what is going on there.

I would check other areas 3 times before I condemned the cylinders or rods.

smithdenny · Oct 21, 2021

TractorGuy said:
Sounds like it might pulled the piston bolt if the rod moves with the cylinder retracted. Try extending both all the way out and see if there is any movement in the rods. You may have to pull them apart to see exactly what is going on there.

I would check other areas 3 times before I condemned the cylinders or rods.

Now I am very embarrassed! Thinking this has to be something simple (and maybe stupid) I looked everything over again... and sure enough it was simple... (and I feel stupid for not seeing it before). One of the quick disconnects on the curl cylinders had come unplugged! I simply bled the pressure down, reconnected the hose and viola! It seems to work normally! Its raining now so tomorrow I'll move some dirt to make sure it is working properly but here in the shop unloaded it seems to operate normally. Sure wished I had seen this before crying wolf! To my self defense the quick disconnects sit between the floorboard and the fuel tank... you actually have to look for them.
Thanks Tractor Guy for your quick response, checking everything 3 times is great advice.
While I normally just lurk here I love this site for all of the helpful information.

Zebrafive · Oct 22, 2021

Makes your day only 1/2 as bad as it could have been

seville009 · Oct 22, 2021

Glad it turned out to be simple.

I use the same technique as you - lower the bucket to find stumps and rocks. I curl the bucket up about half though so that if it does hit something, that it will (hopefully) ride over it instead of slamming to a stop.

Had a similar "helping a neighbor" experience a few years back. Brush hogging a field for a neighbor for the first time; at least five years worth of growth. Raised the mower to back it into the corner and then let it down......right onto a large Boulder. Pushed the blades up into the mower deck and pushed out the deck. Still works though.....

LD1 · Oct 22, 2021

The slight movement was probably a little air in the system from the bucket bleeding off (dumping a bit) and without the QC hooked up when you tried to move it...it was unable to purge the air out.

LD1 · Oct 22, 2021

seville009 said:
Glad it turned out to be simple.

I use the same technique as you - lower the bucket to find stumps and rocks. I curl the bucket up about half though so that if it does hit something, that it will (hopefully) ride over it instead of slamming to a stop.

Had a similar "helping a neighbor" experience a few years back. Brush hogging a field for a neighbor for the first time; at least five years worth of growth. Raised the mower to back it into the corner and then let it down......right onto a large Boulder. Pushed the blades up into the mower deck and pushed out the deck. Still works though.....

Stuff like this is exactly why I hate the fact that so many newer HST tractors have gone away from a clutch pedal.

In an oh-$hit moment such as that....its natural reflex to stomp the left foot on the clutch.

MY HST is old enough it still has the pedal. And I have done just that a few times to save some potential damage

sandman2234 · Oct 22, 2021

So, now that the loader problem has been fixed, shall we move on to the bush hog problem?
David from jax

Richard · Oct 22, 2021

smithdenny said:
Its raining now

It's raining and you discovered your problem was a disconnected quick connect.

Sounds to me like you found the rainbow!

smithdenny · Oct 22, 2021

seville009 said:
Glad it turned out to be simple.

I use the same technique as you - lower the bucket to find stumps and rocks. I curl the bucket up about half though so that if it does hit something, that it will (hopefully) ride over it instead of slamming to a stop.

Had a similar "helping a neighbor" experience a few years back. Brush hogging a field for a neighbor for the first time; at least five years worth of growth. Raised the mower to back it into the corner and then let it down......right onto a large Boulder. Pushed the blades up into the mower deck and pushed out the deck. Still works though.....

I like the idea of curling the bucket back to hopefully ride over the stump/rock, that makes good sense. I will employ that idea in the future, thanks!

smithdenny · Oct 22, 2021

sandman2234 said:
So, now that the loader problem has been fixed, shall we move on to the bush hog problem?
David from jax

The brush hog is a old, tired, pretty well beat up Land Pride RCR 1272 due to all of the abuse I have given it over the years.. Still I cut about 30 acres with it monthly. I have been known to level dirt and gravel piles and to pull small stumps with it. I did say abused didn't I? I was cutting an area my neighbor later called 'The bog'. "I didn't mean for you to cut there!" he now tells me. And I should have known myself to not cut that area. The area was very soft dirt/sand with 'potholes', pulled stumps, limbs and other debris hiding in the weeds. One blade dug into the soft dirt when I fell into a 'pothole' shutting down the tractor. After turning off the PTO, restarting the tractor, raising the brush hog and driving past the pothole I tried to restart the PTO. Very heavy vibration. I assumed the blades had crossed and bound against each other. Shutting everything off I crawled under the raised brush hog to find there was only one blade! After searching the area for awhile I found the missing blade buried in the soft dirt with only about 2 inches of it sticking up. Next to the blade was the tip of it broken off at the mounting bolt hole. I now have the blades, bolts, nuts, washers and dishpan on order from www.germanbliss.com at a cost of $376 including shipping. Obviously I need to learn a little more patience using the brush hog instead of plowing with it. I might also should consider a frail mower instead...

DieselBound · Oct 22, 2021

If you keep the stumpjumper castle nut loose enough then BOTH Blades (and the stump jumper) will eject and you won't have that horrible imbalance! Well, ahem, someone mentioned that to me. BTW - A stump jumper plus blades ejecting from a 6' RC doesn't travel as far as one might think (though mine went far enough into brush that it was a hunt to find it- my trusty "bloodhound" found it)

Here's when a curl cylinder really goes wrong (cost me $700 to produce this picture!):

sandman2234 · Oct 22, 2021

smithdenny said:
The brush hog is a old, tired, pretty well beat up Land Pride RCR 1272 due to all of the abuse I have given it over the years.. Still I cut about 30 acres with it monthly. I have been known to level dirt and gravel piles and to pull small stumps with it. I did say abused didn't I? I was cutting an area my neighbor later called 'The bog'. "I didn't mean for you to cut there!" he now tells me. And I should have known myself to not cut that area. The area was very soft dirt/sand with 'potholes', pulled stumps, limbs and other debris hiding in the weeds. One blade dug into the soft dirt when I fell into a 'pothole' shutting down the tractor. After turning off the PTO, restarting the tractor, raising the brush hog and driving past the pothole I tried to restart the PTO. Very heavy vibration. I assumed the blades had crossed and bound against each other. Shutting everything off I crawled under the raised brush hog to find there was only one blade! After searching the area for awhile I found the missing blade buried in the soft dirt with only about 2 inches of it sticking up. Next to the blade was the tip of it broken off at the mounting bolt hole. I now have the blades, bolts, nuts, washers and dishpan on order from www.germanbliss.com at a cost of $376 including shipping. Obviously I need to learn a little more patience using the brush hog instead of plowing with it. I might also should consider a frail mower instead...

$376...OUCH!!! A little more then I was expecting! I hope that including shipping! I don't think my Bush hog blades cost that much!!
Messing with you, but when you said you you might also should consider a frail mower instead... I thought...hmmm, he already has a frail mower, maybe he means a flail mower?
David from jax

DieselBound · Oct 22, 2021

If you're killing RCs then don't even consider a flail! I've got both. I was lucky that I didn't kill my (7') flail when it sucked up a chunk of cedar root and locked everything up solid (first time I'd ever had the Kioti's engine stop dead). RCs will clip, bump, jump and toss things. Flails work by sucking things up into their cavities and tossing them out back; there's plenty of ways in which to break and wrap stuff up inside them; and then there's belts and stuff that can get shredded (bearings to fail because they require a lot more attention- greasing).

When you're looking at higher dollar amounts for parts it's a good idea to see if there's any used equipment around that you can grab for parts. RC blades are cheap and ubiquitous. The pan is a little less so: and it's a chunk of change to ship.

I have the same Landpride RC. I got it totally used/abused. Blades were worn down to toothpicks: I just replaced the PTO shaft, which had been amply abused. I ran an even lighter-duty 5' Rankin for many years, ran it through total heck, and the blades were still really good when I sold it (had bought a set of blades for it but never needed to replace). My property isn't full of rocks, not toward the surface that is, so that's why blades last for me.

ptsg · Oct 23, 2021

smithdenny said:
The brush hog is a old, tired, pretty well beat up Land Pride RCR 1272 due to all of the abuse I have given it over the years.. Still I cut about 30 acres with it monthly. I have been known to level dirt and gravel piles and to pull small stumps with it. I did say abused didn't I? I was cutting an area my neighbor later called 'The bog'. "I didn't mean for you to cut there!" he now tells me. And I should have known myself to not cut that area. The area was very soft dirt/sand with 'potholes', pulled stumps, limbs and other debris hiding in the weeds. One blade dug into the soft dirt when I fell into a 'pothole' shutting down the tractor. After turning off the PTO, restarting the tractor, raising the brush hog and driving past the pothole I tried to restart the PTO. Very heavy vibration. I assumed the blades had crossed and bound against each other. Shutting everything off I crawled under the raised brush hog to find there was only one blade! After searching the area for awhile I found the missing blade buried in the soft dirt with only about 2 inches of it sticking up. Next to the blade was the tip of it broken off at the mounting bolt hole. I now have the blades, bolts, nuts, washers and dishpan on order from www.germanbliss.com at a cost of $376 including shipping. Obviously I need to learn a little more patience using the brush hog instead of plowing with it. I might also should consider a frail mower instead...

Looks like you could use one of our brush mowers we use around here. These things will just plow through everything and just won't care as the chains will just skip over it. Yeah, it might slip the clutch or snap the shear pin on harder hits but that's about it.

We mow brush with these mowers with 40 or 50 HP tractors that most people in the US would only dare to use a skidsteer and mulching head in those conditions.

As far as using the loader technic, I also do it but only on land that I know and have mowed before. Mostly just to knock the tall brush down to prevent scratching the hood or something.

f I'm mowing for someone else on land I don't know and the brush is taller that 2 or 3 ft, I simply go in the reverse and let the mower take the hits. After all it's cheaper to fix a brush mower than something internal or external on the tractor. If the brush is taller than 5 or 6 ft, I usually go in reverse with the mower about a foot off the ground till I can't go anymore, then just go forward with the mower all the way down.

LD1 · Oct 23, 2021

Sounds like you need a bit heavier duty mower than a landpride 12 series

smithdenny · Oct 23, 2021

DieselBound said:
If you keep the stumpjumper castle nut loose enough then BOTH Blades (and the stump jumper) will eject and you won't have that horrible imbalance! Well, ahem, someone mentioned that to me. BTW - A stump jumper plus blades ejecting from a 6' RC doesn't travel as far as one might think (though mine went far enough into brush that it was a hunt to find it- my trusty "bloodhound" found it)

Here's when a curl cylinder really goes wrong (cost me $700 to produce this picture!):

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Yikes! Now that's a bad day! What happened?

smithdenny · Oct 23, 2021

sandman2234 said:
$376...OUCH!!! A little more then I was expecting! I hope that including shipping! I don't think my Bush hog blades cost that much!!
Messing with you, but when you said you you might also should consider a frail mower instead... I thought...hmmm, he already has a frail mower, maybe he means a flail mower?
David from jax

It definitely is a frail mower! LOL. Good catch!
On pricing the blades are about $100 a set, the dishpan a little north of $200. I hope the seller ships them soon and not get caught up in the 'supply chain' problems...

smithdenny · Oct 23, 2021

LD1 said:
Sounds like you need a bit heavier duty mower than a landpride 12 series

I certainly did need something heavier duty when I first started clearing my property which is when most of my wear and tear damage occurred. Now the property is pretty well cleared and I'm cutting grass only (well, mostly... grin). So hopefully a repaired RC will suffice. If only I stay out of unknown fields! But he is a good neighbor and I'm glad to lend a helping hand to him. I just need to learn to stay out of his 'bog'! grin

RancherGuy · Oct 25, 2021

DieselBound said:
If you keep the stumpjumper castle nut loose enough then BOTH Blades (and the stump jumper) will eject and you won't have that horrible imbalance! Well, ahem, someone mentioned that to me. BTW - A stump jumper plus blades ejecting from a 6' RC doesn't travel as far as one might think (though mine went far enough into brush that it was a hunt to find it- my trusty "bloodhound" found it)
...

Loose castle nut? You are kidding, right? I had a castle nut come off on me because debris took out the cotter pin, then the nut came off and the stump jumper fell to the ground. Here are the threads on the $400 shaft.

I ended up spending a few hours removing the shaft and putting it on my lathe and cleaning up (re-cutting) the threads. Not fun, but the Mrs would not understand that kind of expense.

To make matters worse, this was the center cutter on my 3-cutter batwing. The two outside blade sets did a beat-down on that center stump jumper. I can't find a picture of it, but the 1/8" steel pan was mangled.