Bargaining

[Billc]

Will, I agree with several posts that said don't be rude, or a hard a$$ed negotiator. It doesn't win friends and influence people, does just the opposite.

Think the first thing to do is find out what a fair price is. You do that by calling a lot of dealers. Don't go by, just call. After talking to 10 to 15 dealerships, including Carver, you'll know what is a fair price. Second, start at the dealer you like best. Go to him with your price. Tell him how you arrived at the price. Again, always be nice. Third, more than likely he'll say no. Fourth, be willing to wait. Tell him you are in no rush, that you really want to do business with him, and if he decides to let it go for your asking price, and if you haven't found another, to call you and you'll do the deal. Fifth, call him about once a week to say hi.

When I bought mine I wanted a used M4700 with less than 500 hours. There are 5 Kubota dealers within a hundred miles of me. I found the tractor that fit the bill at Rhienheart (sp) Tractor in Rome, GA. Can't say I liked the dealership too much. Told them what I was willing to pay, they scoffed. I felt like I was at a used car dealership. We were $900 apart on price. I was told another guy was on his way to buy the tractor, if I wanted it I had better buy it right then. I walked, told them to call me if they decided to meet my price. Next went to Goss Tractor in Jasper, GA. A great dealership. They didn't have what I was looking for, but said they would call if one came in. Then went to Mason Tractor in Blue Ridge, GA, another great dealership. They had a M6800 with 50 hours but was too pricey. I told them what I was willing to pay and left. Went by several other tractor places that didn't have what I was looking for.

Over the next several weeks I kept in contact with the dealerships. Both Reinheart and Mason got better with their asking prices. (Surprisingly the guy who was on his way down to buy the M4700 at Reinheart didn't show. I was shocked...shocked I tell you!). I was trying to buy a tractor before the end of the year for tax reasons. This was now Dec 18th or so. Goss Tractor called me and said they just got a M5400 that had 60 hours and was I still interested. I asked the price. They were asking $500 more than what I wanted to pay for the M4700 at Reinheart. It was a good deal, I bought it. Two days later Reinheart called and said that they had agreed to sell the M4700 at my price. I enjoyed telling them I had already bought from Goss Tractor. Sadly, Mason Tractor called a couple of days past that and agreed to sell me the M6800 at my asking price. Opps.

Bottom line is do your home work to determine an acceptable price. Make your offer, then be willing to wait.

I buy and sell real estate for a living. I use this approach when I'm buying, it works well. When I'm selling, I know what I want to sell for. Sometimes I hold out for my asking price. Sometimes the right person with a good offer comes along at just the right time, and I take his offer even though I know I'm not making all that I can. And sometimes a jerk comes in willing to pay close to my asking price. I enjoy telling the fella to take a walk just because he's a jerk. So be nice.

This is probably a lot more info than you wanted. Hope it helps.

Bill Cook

 

[bpence]

I worked as a general sales manager in a car dealership for some years and have to agree with Tim on his approach to selling big ticket tangilbe items. When customers come with a "you've got to sharpen your pencil" attitude, it's hard to sort out what the customer's real needs and wants are in what they are trying to purchase. If price was the only thing a customer was interested in, I generally suggested they take our price (yes, I'd give them a fair price) and go ahead and shop the market. I lost more sales over $100 than I can remember. Our dealership believed we deserved a fair and reasonable profit for the products and services we provided. Sometimes, hard-nosed negotiation took us to the point where we just couldn't say yes to a deal. If customers were interested in a dealership that was going to work hard to make sure their ownership experience was the best it could possibly be, then I asked them to consider that as part of our price. Once you say that, you have to live up to it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if, as a dealership, you're not priced competitively you won't sell the product numbers you need to keep the doors open. And if you have an attitude about servicing a product bought elsewhere, you won't even get a chance to sell that customer or his/her friends, family, or neighbors in the future.

Car dealership or tractor dealership, it doesn't matter......the attitude of the owner/managers determines how customers get handled. When you find a dealership that treats you with respect, treat the folks there with respect and you will find that prices will be competitive, service will be great, and you will be a highly satisfied customer. Remember, the folks in the dealerships are doing what all the rest of us are trying to do every day, make a living.

As you shop for your tractor, find a dealership that treats you as a customer with respect. The price they offer may not be the rock bottom lowest price in the market, but it will be competitive, and they will work hard to earn and keep your business. And, they'll be in business to take care of your needs when tomorrow comes. That's how I see the world.

Bob Pence

 

[cowboydoc]

Whenever I buy I do my homework and find out as much as I can about the item that I'm buying. Then before I ever go in I know exactly what I'm going to pay for the item and I let the salesman know that right up front. That way my time isn't wasted and his time isn't wasted. As far as being loyal to the dealer and giving them business and paying more because of service I have not found that to be true. Perfect example is the John Deere dealer in the town where I live. They have great service and are very nice people but you pay through the nose for it. The town 20 miles over doesn't have red carpet service, but they are nice people and have cut all the frills and multiple employees and just plain give you a good deal. Another example when I bought my powerstroke. They were new and so everyone had them priced way up there. I knew my price and went to several dealers and noone wanted to deal. I found a little dealership in a town of 1500 people that not only met they price they priced it $200 lower and their service has been impeccable. The big dealers in town were not even within $2000 of their price. I have told these guys they are the best kept secret around and they have said that's the way they want to keep it. They don't do any advertising and all of their business is word of mouth and return customers. They said once a customer buys from them they always come back because noone ever beats their prices. What they would spend on advertising they pass on to the customer in the form of rock bottom prices. I have been to some good dealers and the next year they have changed hands. Not because they didn't make it but because they did and somebody bought them out and then changed over to the big business attitude. I have been lied to, cheated, had contracts re-written without my knowledge, etc. Even with quote "good dealers" you have to beware. I have also found ones that were absolutely great and the deals went off just as they said they would. Yes there are some excellent dealerships out there but they are few and far between. The good dealerships that I've found have almost always been the ones with the lowest prices as well. They were willing to work with you and were nice about the whole deal.
It is usually the dealership with the higher prices that are the ones that are not very good after the sale either.

I'm not badmouthing dealerships at all just giving another side and for me it is price that matters because five years from now that same dealership may not even be there and even then they are still going to be there to make money. Nothing wrong with that at all, just that price does make a big difference in buying decisions. Buying strategies differ from dealer to dealer as well. One dealer one thing will work and another dealer something else will work. I don't think there is any straight forward way to handle any given dealer. From my own experience I have found great dealers with great prices and service. If I hadn't been adamant about price and bought into the free oil change here and there I wouldn't have found them. In my own experience it does pay to shop for the lowest price and stick to your guns as far as price and service goes. I also practice what I preach and in my own business I do everything I can to save my patients money and keep my rates very fair.

 

[tralderman]

Todd,
I didn't intend to upset anyone with my post. The best way to facilitate customer/dealer understanding is to know the mindset of the two parties involved.
In business since 1946, we’ve seen all sorts of people that come into our store. The best customers are those that have an actual interest in your business, who ask questions pertaining to parts and service and want to tour the facility, etc. These customers understand that to be a productive and successful dealership, we need to be reasonably profitable.
The worst kind of customers are those who stop in waving a quote from the neighboring dealer or call around for "your best price." I’ve even had customers fake or doctor quotes from other dealers. If I sense this, I will call the competing dealer and verify the quote while the customer is standing there (you should see them sweat). You’ve got to remember, we see our fellow dealers at regional meetings and trade shows and we transfer equipment back and forth frequently. Trying to get us to do battle is against your better interests.
Worse yet are those who send FAX solicitations asking for bids. These people show no sincere interest in what you’ve got to offer in the way of parts, service, facilities, etc. This is truly what sets each dealer apart, and what may make that $500 difference.

 

[tralderman]

Todd,
I didn't intend to upset anyone with my post. The best way to facilitate customer/dealer understanding is to know the mindset of the two parties involved.
In business since 1946, we’ve seen all sorts of people that come into our store. The best customers are those that have an actual interest in your business, who ask questions pertaining to parts and service and want to tour the facility, etc. These customers understand that to be a productive and successful dealership, we need to be reasonably profitable.
The worst kind of customer are those who stop in waving a quote from the neighboring dealer or call around for "your best price." I’ve even had customers fake or doctor quotes from other dealers. If I sense this, I will call the competing dealer and verify the quote while the customer is standing there (you should see them sweat). You’ve got to remember, we see our fellow dealers at regional meetings and trade shows and we transfer equipment back and forth frequently. Trying to get us to do battle is against your better interests.
Worse yet are those who send FAX solicitations asking for bids. These people show no sincere interest in what you’ve got to offer in the way of parts, service, facilities, etc. This is truly what sets each dealer apart, and what may make that $500 difference.

 

[Thomas]

tralderman,
"sharpen the pencil" kinda been handed down thru the years around these parts,and when I use that term theres no pressue on the dealer...joking around.
Nickleing and dimeing dealer only jacks up the price in the long run..even by word of mouth. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Whats that saying...the customer is always right??..WRONG!!
The customer can be his or hers worst enemy.... heard my dealer talk to a smart @ss once..will you shut up for a dam moment and listen to what I have to say.. I'm here to help you...

OOPs got to scoot coffee ready and meeting to attend to,so have a pleasant weekend.


Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[RBrown]

Will,

Something else that I haven't heard anyone talk about is age descrimination. I ran into that during my search for a good dealer, however it really wasn't the typical case of descrimination that everyone is aware of. I am in my late 20's and I could not get a dealer to take me seriously when I asked about a 2710. The prices I got were all list prices and I was told "That's what we get for them, thanks for stopping by.". Steve Carver was a big help and the advice that Tim is giving you is what worked for me. The dealer I chose wasn't the closest to me, but he did treat me with respect and I got a good price and package. I also think that by downloading a credit application off of the Kubota website and fillling it out before I even visited the dealer I chose helped me to be taken as a serious buyer. Once he saw my occupation and salary he knew that I could afford it and wasn't just dreaming.

 

[cowboydoc]

Tim,
I completely understand where you are coming from but understand where the customer that doesn't have alot of time is coming from as well. When I'm looking to buy a new piece of machinery or equipment the only way I can know what the going prices are is to call around. I don't have the time to run around and visit different dealers or take time going through their whole business. Most of the time I usually know more about the product I'm buying that the salesman does. Not always but alot of times. How many times on this board do we see where something comes out and the dealer knows nothing about it and the customer does. I'm not putting dealers or salesman down at all. I'm looking at one thing and they have to have information on hundreds of items. Just that I'm not going to take up your time because I know what I need to know. I need to sign the papers and get my purchase home. I'm also not going to cost the dealer time and money either. I know what I want, I know what price I want to pay and I have the cash in hand. I think that for a dealer to be really successful they have to cater to all different kinds of customers.

 

[bpence]

Cowboydoc-
Just like you, I do a lot of homework before I commit to a major purchase. Sometimes when doing price research I'll find that the lowest price is not necessarily the "best deal". A lot of folks find this out when they're buying cars, trucks, tractors, or any real big ticket item. In my years as a dealership sales manager, I always tried to give customers the best price possible.......period. I knew I couldn't always be the lowest priced guy in town, so I made it up with tangible benefits for our customers. Service loaners, pick-up service for the car when needed to come in, discounts on scheduled service items, free oil changes for the first 12 months, etc. I guess where I'm headed with all of this is pretty simple, at least in my simple mind. I learned that value is what's important. The lowest available price may represent the best value, it may not. Our dealership customers may have paid a few dollars more (maybe a few hundred, maybe not) than the lowest possible sales price on the street, but the tangible benefits they received from doing business with us more than out-weighed the few dollars more in initial purchase price. It's funny, customers who came to us for service after purchasing their vehicle elsewhere often wondered why we couldn't (read wouldn't) provide them with a service loaner or pick up their car for service, just like our customers. They chose to save a hundred or two versus looking at total value. I learned very quickly in the car business that no matter how low you were willing to go on price, there was always someone willing to go lower. That's OK, but from a dealer-owner / manager perspective, it's not necessarily the best way to build a business that's going to be a long term part of the community.

I'm not disagreeing in any way, shape, or form that price isn't an important factor in any buying decision. For a lot of folks it's the only thing that matters. And if a price isn't competitive, I say walk away. The customer always has that choice. What I am trying to say is that value for the dollars spent is how I learned to do business and that's how I still do things today. Like anyone else, I like a good old fashion haggle now and again, but what I'm really driving for is bottom line value, which isn't always the lowest possible price.

OK, that's my nickel's worth.

Bob Pence

 

[Steve_Carver]

The advice offered previously by the other dealers was all.... RIGHT ON TARGET and I fully agree with all their points. Several things not mentioned were ... so I'll humbly add.

My suggestion is that you, FIRST, find a dealer that is truly happy and excited about the opportunity to serve you. A dealer and all his people should be very proud of the product they are offering you and be willing to "stake their business reputation on their commitment to do more take you money." They should demonstrate how much they appreciate the opportunity to serve you, "a paying customer," and if they don't --- Tell'm to "KISS OFF" and take your hard earned dollars elsewhere. I believe this is TRUE whether you are buying hamburgers, cars or tractors.

If you want to shop for the cheapest price, and you are committed to only CHEAP ... you are setting yourself up to be "less than" satisfied in the long term. If you take all the margin OUT OF A DEAL ... there's no money left for the dealer to ante-up for you in the future and you have basically -- purchased as a wholesale buyer that expects NOTHING extra or without charge in the future. There are no free lunches but there -- But there are some Great Values.

Don't be hoodwinked with "cheap interest" deals, freebies, promises that don't mean "squat" in comparisons to the years and possible tears you'll be "in bed" with the investment. Beware of "cheapest" interest deals. They usually mean the offerer is having the toughest time "selling" an overpriced or problem riddled product in thde marketplace.

Please remember -There is no "one quote" that applies to every deal -- every where.   The bottom line here -- "There's a lot more to it than the bottom line," even if all the spec. s are the same.   Every deal, quote and offer is different in many, many ways.   You should search for your best investment value and have a very good comfort level with the place you honor with your order.

Each customer / dealer has to work through and design a proposal that suits the particular shoppers needs. If they are unprepared, unwilling or not qualified to help you.... Walk! no Run -- to a dealer that is.

Simple and seemly little items may change the delivered price UP or DOWN by $1000.
Examples are: an extra light, ballast in tires, delivery requirements and location, "the timeline" pressures.

Other items that often times change the value are: discounts for demos or rentals / trade ins, "Up-charges" for special considerations such as extra low rate financing programs and taxes.  

The dealer who goes the "extra mile" to change wheel settings, switch tires and fabricate special things for you or a family member -- deserve more money because they delivered VALUE to you.

The super important topics: SERVICE – REPAIRS – WARRANTY ... must be addressed , especially with used product purchases. We suggest that the shoppers fully understand the long term value of being able to find support for service and parts. Many dealers have a SERVICE MISSION OR COMMITMENT STATEMENT documenting their commitment to your long term product and services satisfaction. We offer a mission statement that can be read at : http://www.carverequipment.com/Tips/repairs.htm.

If they are not committed to your long term satisfaction...... you should ask yourself. "Why should I give them my money?"

No product and no dealer is perfect. Things have to be fixed at times and the purchaser and dealer must have a willingness to understand the other's issues and find common ground to agree on a reasonable way to get to a resolve of problems as they occur. If the purchaser and seller are willing to quietly and confidently address the future issues as a team and willing to pay the just cost accordingly, things will always work out to a Good Ending.

That's why it's so important to "feel good" about the manner in which you are treated as a shopper.
If you don't feel good about the way they treat you -- when you are "trying to give'm an order," you can bet 100% that you'll not be treated well when they have to make an investment on your "satisfaction's" behalf.

Bottom line, I believe, that the value of a high comfort level with the dealership is just as important as the brand, interest rate, and investment amount. Part of that comfort level must be ... "Not being overcharged to feel good or stay in my town." Make sure the organization (not just a salesman) that wants your money is willing to offer information -- service-advice and service and to be focused on your long term goals and applications. If they are offering only ORDER TAKING, gimmicks, drop dead interest rates, or NO service threats ... wake up ... it's 2001.
You'll be around longer than they will.

Do your homework and be ready to recognize a GREAT DEAL with Great Value when you see it?

There are several thousand dealers that feel just this way.
I'm pleased to report that we have at least six (out of 25) of them (SIX DIFFERENT BRAND) within 50 miles of Botaville.com in beautiful Dunn City, North Carolina.

If you can't find one nearby ... well ... come-on over here...

I do love it... and you too.
Have a great weekend.

sc