Barns and shop layouts

[Pks]

In the process of designing my new barn, I have been closely following the various posts regarding the Workbenches etc. Reading through it all, it dawned on me to start a thread about the layout of the shop and machine storage areas.

I'm thinking of where everyone puts their benches with respect to where the sink is, where the arc welder and gas welder are and where the drill press got located, where the air compressor went and where the windows are located.

Thus far I have determined that my needs dictate a: 30 x 40 foot pole barn with a 10 foot ceiling. Light attic style storage for garden hoses would be nice too. I also would like to have a phone, reference area for manuals, computer (I have an online parts manual for the Bota), sink, hot water, shower area and extra hot and cold water faucets for washing machinery. I intend to leave room for a future drill press and large grinder and arbor press. What else have you people found useful in your shops? Oh, I suppose a vacuum cleaner is in order too.

Reading therrien's post got me to think about more head room over the auto repair portion of the shop.

Here are some of the assumptions:
30 x 40 foot barn.
split the barn into 4 bays, each being 10 feet wide and 30 feet long.
roof peak is along the 40 foot barn length
trusses are parallel to the long axis of the 10 x 30 ft bay

My thought is to have standard trusses (horizontal bottom cord) span the 30 ft. These would allow for some light attic style storage. But these trusses would be used only over 3 of the 4 bays. The single 10 foot wide bay would have trusses that rose upward in the center allowing for increased ceiling height. That would allow a little more headroom for lifting a car on a hoist.

I don't know the name of the truss style that rises upward in the middle, but that type is visable in the top photo of Bill's link.</font color=blue>

Does anyone know if that mixed truss idea would work out well?

Peter

 

[s1120]

<font color=red>30 x 40 foot barn.
split the barn into 4 bays, each being 10 feet wide and 30 feet long.</font color=red>

If you are going to be working on things here, you may do beter with an open layout. You can never have enuff room around you when you are working on something.

I am also thinking of a 30x 40 barn. Mine will be open, except for a 10x20 bay closed off for a clean room. This will be used for painting and stuff.

 

[Bill_in_MI]

They called the trusses "raised chord." On my 36 foot width it gave me an extra 3 feet at the peak of the ceiling. In other words the walls are 12 feet and raise to 15 at the center.

Your post is very relevant. The barn is done...but I am really having a tough time figuring out where to locate everything for the best layout. I'll keep watching here.

 

[Bill_in_MI]

I forgot I was gonna comment on the mixed trusses. I don't know why it would not work out as long as the roof pitch matched. You would have to add some nailers on to the horizontal truss at the transition point and do a little extra ceiling trim-out work to cover the peak at the transition...but it should look just fine. Not a bad idea in my opinion.

 

[RMulkey]

Here is the Barn I just finished. (This is the California wannabe-farmer-who-lives-in-a-place-with CC&Rs kind of barn). It is 53'wide, 42'deep, 16' ceilings. The doors are 12'w X 14'h. It has a clear span with no posts. The entire frame was covered with shear wall to pass local building codes for earth quakes. I am still building a saparate 30' x 50' shop that should be done in ~1month.

Here are some sugestions:
- The mixed trusses should work fine just make sure they have the same load rating, span, and outside pitch.
- I would leave the walls open between at least 2 stalls including the shop area so you can expand temperorarliy while you work. Also 4'x8' sheet goods can be a pain in a shop with 10' ceilings. If buget allows, consider going to 12' in the shop.
- Mount LOTS of windows high on the walls to let the light in and not interfear with benches and wall cabinets.
- If you are going to store a big trailer, consider using 12' wide doors.
- Lots of power connections 20A for 110V, 15A-50A 220V for compressors, dust collection and a welder.
- Phone, desk, and computer locations are great. You may want to enclose them to keep them a little cleaner over time.
- Washer and dryer for rags, shop sink, shower, are great ideas.
- Floor mounted electicals for the machines can keep cords from tripping you. Hubbell makes some great sealed floor boxes with brass plated steel covers that you can drive a tank over.
- For machine locations, The goal is to walk or carry heavy stuff as little as possible. Lumber storage should be located where you can back up to it with your truck. Tablesaw and Radial arm saw should be as close as possible to the lumber racks so you don't need to move the heavy sheet goods or long stock to far. Jointer and Planner next to tablesaw since you switch back and forth a lot. The band saw, drill press, lathe can be just about anywhere but they need LOTS of light. I grouped them together in my currnet shop but will have more room to spread out later. Electirc Welder should be located near the door so you can work outside or inside. Use 1/2" Copper pipe for air connections with locations near the doors and at your work bench. Shove the compressor out of the way but keep it inside to keep down the condensation. In addition to a work bench, I use a assembly table that is 5' x 9' with adustable hight from 16" to 48". Pipe clamps and glueing clamps near the assembly table. Store hand and light power tools in drawers near the workbench or assembly table. Finishing should be done with little to no saw dust. A plastic curtian on tracks from the ceiling makes a great way to temporarily isolate a finishing area.

Hope this gives you some ideas.
-Roger

 

[RMulkey]

Sorry, Here is the picture.

 

[smilingreen]

Niiice...Verrry nice!!!! I wonder if Santa Claus would bring me one of those for Christmas if I promised to be a good boy/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif ?!!

 

[RobS]

Wow, great looking barn there Roger! Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into it. I'll be watching this thread as I have some design work on my barn complete but it will have to wait until after the house for actual construction... maybe long after /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Gatorboy]

Roger,

That is a pretty steep hill right next to your barn. Do you have any drainage problems when it rains?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

We just finished a 30'x40' barn with 12' ceiling and attic trusses. The attic trusses puts a room 14'x40'x7' upstairs that the guy will use for storage. We added a 6'x6' overhead door upstairs for moving large items and there are two end doors 10'x10'.

 

[Pks]

SE1120,

I'm using the term "bay" to help define equipment locations, repair zones and storage areas. The whole barn will be as you suggest, completely open. I have not determined if I want a clean room or a paint room.

Bill thanks for the help on the terminology.

Roger, thanks for the added ideas. When I compare my notes with those of you with experience, I can see that I'm headed in the right direction.

I am also trying to figure out how the concrete floor should be. One thing that has always been a "pet peeve" is having a sloping floor under a car while trying to determine how much oil is in the engine. IMHO, the floor in the auto repair area should be polished and level. But I'd also like to have any running water (from a hose or broken pipe) guided to a drain. I don't want a 1200 square foot flood if someone leaves the hose running on the shop floor!

Have any of you put in drains or guide channels etc?

I also think I’ll have a little roughness added to the concrete around the doors to help prevent slipping when the floor is wet. In my area, installers drag a shop broom across wet concrete to add texture.

What floor thickness is good and did the floor get scored after it was poured? My barn will sit on x-million year old river bottom sand and clay. I have a feeling I'll end up bringing in a load of crushed rock to make sure the floor maintains its stability.

What re-bar types have you used?

Thanks, Peter

 

[DocHeb]

To keep the floor level, yet still have a slope, have the drain centered under the car. That way all the floor can be drained, but the car can remain level.

Consider using a two-part epoxy or polyurethane paint on the floor. This will keep stains off and allow easy cleaning. This finish could be slicker than ice, so there is grit/sand material especially made to be broadcasted on the wet paint to give traction. It is the same material as used on sandpaper. I had my garage done nine years ago and it is still in great condition.

 

[rdln]

I just stumbled across these free downloadable in Acrobat form <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mwps_dis/mwps_web/ma_plans.html>Barn plans</A>
In the 60' wide shed they show tool layout and lighting stuff. It deals with more room than you are talking about but should be helpful.

At the site there is also a catalogue link with useful looking publications.

 

[Rch]

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://jplan.com/cgi-bin/tractor/fullThread.pl?parentnum=22933&category=HPB&catname=Barns%20/%20Pole%20Barns#23109>http://jplan.com/cgi-bin/tractor/fullThread.pl?parentnum=22933&category=HPB&catname=Barns%20/%20Pole%20Barns#23109</A>
Here is a link on the Compact Tractor Board regarding designing and building a shop. It has some links regarding radiant heating, vehicle lifts, bifold doors.
An additional thought regarding windows. Crank-out awning windows, if left open, still keep out rain pretty good and, if a wind blows up, won't get ripped off like casement windows.

 

[Bayrat]

<font color=blue>I just went through what you are planning. My barn has two areas. One is wide open and the other is a 20 x 40 shop. Go for the highest ceiling you can on your property, you won't regret it, it is extremely cheap to go up as opposed to out. My 30' boat is stored in a stall and I can stand up in it with room to spare. I had the builder install a ceiling in my shop area, I am already regretting I didn't go the whole building. My floor is aprox. four inches thick poured with fiberglass impregnated cement. they cut joints into it after it set and I have had no cracks. I built a large access door between the shop and the storage area. I regret not using larger doors. I had one 13' x14' and two 9'x9' {that should have been 10'}. I installed all of my plumbing to the rear of the shop before the pour, for future use. The shop doors are insulated, as are the windows. I used a 2' strip of sunpanel all across the back wall just below the truss. Burry your electric and phone conduit before the pour as well. I had the builder put a glass finish on my floor and spray it with sealer, no sliding problem as yet. I dug all of my drains while the contractor slept at night so they would end up where I wanted them. The floor is mostly level, but it does taper as it nears the drains (3). I set them at about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch low to assure this happened. Hope this helps, you will enjoy your project, especially if you participate in the building.

 

[Pks]

Bayrat,

What did you use for the drains: upside down oil drum or one of those plastic drains that are available from Home Depot?

Thanks, Peter

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

Pks

There are several different Truss styles that rise like you describe, you might want to hit a truss manufacturer and see what's available. I've also seen a few builders using the engineered joists as rafters in homes with vaulted ceilings. (Time will tell if that one is a good idea. Roofs tend to deal with a lot of moisture and if that OSB ribbon delaminates there won't be anything holding up the roof but a couple of 2x2's--oh well, it's the CoOde department's problem.)

You might consider a larger door. I went 9x10 with mine to make sure I had room enough to get my truck in and out. A little extra width can help a lot.

SHF

 

[Bayrat]

Peter,
<font color=blue>I used 4" PVC with 9" pre-made drains that were manufactured with a 3" discharge. I used reducers to make the connection to the 4". I used sweep tees as well.

 

[rbargeron]

Peter - your idea of one higher bay pretty much describes my barn. It is a 46' wide 40' deep saltbox design - on sloped land. The height had to kept low so it didn't dwarf the house (my wife is an architect - lucky me!) the building looks terrific.

Trusses are 32' long, 8:12 pitch warren (open center) except
the 10' bay with the lift has what are called "scissors trusses" - you can see them in <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/2-103430-5450lifted.jpg>this pic</A> if you look close.

Let me know if you'd like more details or pics.

 

[Timd]

I had been thinking that a saltbox design offers some real
design advantages for anyone who has a lot of implements
and equipment, especially if you set up to store things on
casters. Off-season and seldom used stuff can go in the back
where the roof is low, and you get a lot of storage area.

I've read a lot of carpentry books and web pages on framing,
but there's a real lack of information about how to frame up a
saltbox. The best I've been able to come up with is to build
it as a conventional roof but use a cross beam on posts to
carry the load of the long rafters to the low end wall plate.
Still don't have a clue how to do the gable end framing.
It never occurred to me that trusses might be available for
a saltbox roof. Would love to see more pix of your shop.

Timd