Basement Heat

dieselscout80 · Aug 13, 2010

I am finishing up the finishing of our basement and I want to add some sort of heat down there since my heatpumps thermostat is only in the upstairs. I have a propane gas log upstairs with a 150 gal propane tank.

The basement is 24'x34' = 816 sqft with two 12'x16' bed rooms and a 7'x10' bathroom the rest is a rec room/common area. THe basement in a daylight basement on one side (bedrooms) and below/in ground on other sides.

What is the best sort of propane heater?

Will this work or something like it?
ProCom Radiant Vent-Free Liquid Propane Heater  25,000 BTU, Model# ML250TPA | Propane Heaters | Northern Tool + Equipment

bjr · Aug 13, 2010

Man, I jus' went thru this. In WA state, NO PROPANE in the basement. The inspection-code people said that if it was natural gas that is another story, but the propane was definite no-no. It was something about being heavier than air and could cause bad things in a enclosed basement. I've been asking about getting Natural Gas ran up our street, but, the local gas main people just laughed at me when I asked about that, I guess that meant NO. bjr

sweettractors · Aug 13, 2010

dieselscout80 said:
I am finishing up the finishing of our basement and I want to add some sort of heat down there since my heatpumps thermostat is only in the upstairs. I have a propane gas log upstairs with a 150 gal propane tank.

The basement is 24'x34' = 816 sqft with two 12'x16' bed rooms and a 7'x10' bathroom the rest is a rec room/common area. THe basement in a daylight basement on one side (bedrooms) and below/in ground on other sides.

What is the best sort of propane heater?

Will this work or something like it?
ProCom Radiant Vent-Free Liquid Propane Heater 25,000 BTU, Model# ML250TPA | Propane Heaters | Northern Tool + Equipment

I just finished our basement 4 years ago and I put in propane fireplace logs. Works great. Ken Sweet

bp fick · Aug 13, 2010

We put in a new propane space heater, 50,000 btu, last winter. It heats the entire house easily and inexpensively, relatively speaking. It is a vented, console style from Empire. (ventless create a lot of water vapor)

Still, not too happy with heavier-than-air propane in my basement. May move it upstairs in the future, but there really is no good place for it, other than the basement. That would also force me to put electric baseboards in the basement, which would be fine by me.

dieselscout80 · Aug 13, 2010

I'd also consider wood or pellet heat.

rjkobbeman · Aug 13, 2010

bjr said:
Man, I jus' went thru this. In WA state, NO PROPANE in the basement. The inspection-code people said that if it was natural gas that is another story, but the propane was definite no-no. It was something about being heavier than air and could cause bad things in a enclosed basement. I've been asking about getting Natural Gas ran up our street, but, the local gas main people just laughed at me when I asked about that, I guess that meant NO. bjr

Our county does not allow fireplace "helpers/starters" for the same reason. NG is OK, but not propane.

Don't know enough to know if it is bogus or not. Many people just install one after the final inspection is over.

I have NG, so I am not affected.

Back on subject though... I have two garage heaters that run on NG that are very similar to the one linked to by the OP. There are lots out on the market, both in LP and NG versions.

I love them for my garage, but I would not want to use one in a living space... even though they are considered OK. There may not be any gas being pumped into the air, but there is some emmissions from the burn. However small, it is noticable after a while. Having said that, I know people that use them in living spaces.

As far as operation, they are pretty cool. They have O2 sensors that cutoff if depletion of O2 is sensed. They also have the classic thermocouple fail-safe pilot. These units are pretty safe. The are also thermostatically controlled so they can maintain a constant temp. I keep mine burning (I have two, one each in two separate garage stalls) 24x7 in the winter.

jpaeye · Aug 13, 2010

Have you considered electric baseboard heat?

Easy to install and pretty cheap. I installed these in our house when I finished our basement, just in case I needed a little extra heat here and there. Honestly rarely used them.

Now, if heat will be required all the time, they may not be the most economical over time.

kenmac · Aug 13, 2010

bp fick said:
Still, not too happy with heavier-than-air propane in my basement..

If every thing is gas tight (no leaks) No problems. You can try to supply the room off of your main duct & see how it works. I supplied off my main duct for den down stairs for heat / cooling & have no problems

rjkobbeman · Aug 13, 2010

kenmac said:
If every thing is gas tight (no leaks) No problems. You can try to supply the room off of your main duct & see how it works. I supplied off my main duct for den down stairs for heat / cooling & have no problems

Agreed.

The additives in LP and NG (different I think) cannot be mistaken. If you have a leak, you will know it.

I had a NG leak at my meter once. It took the guy 10 minutes to find with soapy water... but I found it in 10 seconds with my nose! I first noticed it half way around the house because of the smell.

Keep in mind what is inside is "low pressure" also. Individual devices may further lower the pressure via their own regulator, but the line pressure in the house is already lowered from the tank (LP). On NG I think it is 7" of water column which is about 1/2 psi. LP is higher -- double that I think. It is still really low pressure. It isn't rocket science to seal everything up good and tight.

mbohuntr · Aug 13, 2010

We heat our whole 2400 sq ft home with a Englander pellet stove in the basement. Love it!!! 3 1/2 tons/season.

maybar · Aug 13, 2010

If you install a propane heater with a thermopile rather than a thermocouple you can have heat during power outages.

I have a vented wall furnace in the basement that will heat the whole house without AC power. Has come in mighty handy during ice storms.

CurlyDave · Aug 13, 2010

bjr said:
Man, I jus' went thru this. In WA state, NO PROPANE in the basement. The inspection-code people said that if it was natural gas that is another story, but the propane was definite no-no. It was something about being heavier than air and could cause bad things in a enclosed basement. I've been asking about getting Natural Gas ran up our street, but, the local gas main people just laughed at me when I asked about that, I guess that meant NO. bjr

I have to agree with the no propane in the basement people.

Propane is definitely heavier than air and will accumulate in the basement.

While I agree the odor is a good warning, there are situations where it does not work. Some people are not sensitive enough for the odor to wake them up from sleeping. A small leak can produce a oxygen-depleted atmosphere over time, and the odor will not be noticed. A phenomenon called "olfactory saturation" means that people get used to odors and will not notice the foul odor. suffocation can result.

A second danger is that propane-air mixtures can be explosive. You might notice the smell of gas in the basement, but when you turn on a light to investigate -- boom.

Sure a lot of folks get away with it for long periods of time, but tractors were sold without ROPS for a long, long time. Today I wouldn't drive a tractor without one, and I wouldn't use propane in my basement either.

For occasional use, either use electric heaters, or tee off your existing air duct and install a damper, which will let you balance the air flow.

kenmac · Aug 13, 2010

I find it funny that some people are afraid to use propane or ng in their homes but, don't give it a 2 nd thought of storing gallons gasoline ( which is also heavier than air) in their crawl space / basement. These same people think electricity is safe as a heat source. Electricial fires happen all the time. If there are no gas leaks when the appliance is installed. You should have no worries

Propane is usually supplied at 11 in.w.c. ( water column) ng is supplied at 2 psi ,6'' w.c. ,or 7'' w.c. 27.7 '' w.c. = 1 lb of gas pressure

mbohuntr · Aug 14, 2010

Up here in the country, there are only two choices. Propane and fuel oil. I think the ratio is around 50/50.

Freds · Aug 14, 2010

I would think that being ventless would cause moisture problems, too. If I put anything in a basement I would want it vented.

maybar · Aug 14, 2010

Propane is heavier than air, will accumulate in the basement and is explosive in the correct volume. If enough leaks, it will fill the structure from botton to top and if an ignition source is reached when the concencration reaches LEL (lower explosive level) to UPL (upper explosive level), the roof of the house often lands in the neighbors yard.
Natural gas is lighter than air, will accumulate in the upper levels and is explosive in the correct volume. If enough leaks, it will fill the structure from top to bottom and if an ignition source is reached when the concencration reaches LEL (lower explosive level) to UPL (upper explosive level), the roof of the house often lands in the neighbors yard.

mjarrels · Aug 14, 2010

Coal baby coal... If you have a chimney. Cheap, nothing burns hotter than coal.

mark

204saskman · Aug 14, 2010

Ill thirdsy the pellet/corn stoves. I heat our whole house with 2 harman PC45 stoves. I heated out house all winter last year for under $40 bucks a month including the power. Now in my stoves i burn mostly grain screenings and alot of the local farmers here are willing to give them to you almost. Most days we were using about 2 bushells a day at a cost of $0.50/bushell and they dont use that much electricity. Just a thought.