Basic pusher blade for my '47 Massey

[Coolnorth]

Hi Jim,

Yes - the front cover plate, I've noticed in the shop manual that some models had the pump mounted there when they had the rear implement lift option (pre 3PH).
Does your 81 have a magneto in the place where my governor sits thus putting your governor on the front?

You could use my mount method on your tractor as it bolts directly to the frame, you'd just have to ensure clearances if you drop the mount as low as mine goes to avoid tire rub. You'd also have to move the first plow frame cross member forward a bit. Scrapping that idea altogether, you could use the method my neighbor did on his old Allis Chalmers, where he hung a braced brcket on either side of the differential, put pivots on those and then ran LONG shafts from the back of the tractor up to the blade (about 12 feet long). Pardon my quick drawing but it might help illustrating it.

 

[Jim2]

Does your 81 have a magneto in the place where my governor sits thus putting your governor on the front?

No, I don't have a magneto. There's nothing behind that lobe at all. I don't know why they put the governor on the front. . . . I guess that's just the way they did it at that time?

You could use my mount method on your tractor as it bolts directly to the frame, you'd just have to ensure clearances if you drop the mount as low as mine goes to avoid tire rub. You'd also have to move the first plow frame cross member forward a bit. Scrapping that idea altogether, you could use the method my neighbor did on his old Allis Chalmers, where he hung a braced brcket on either side of the differential, put pivots on those and then ran LONG shafts from the back of the tractor up to the blade (about 12 feet long). Pardon my quick drawing but it might help illustrating it.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna end up running long shafts from the back of the tractor. My front wheels swing out pretty wide when I turn. Also, I'm not sure about all that weight out there on the narrow front.

I recently bought a gray-market Yanmar, that'll probably be doing snowplow duty this year as it has a 5' loader bucket. So, the Massey project is on the back-burner right now. I'm still collecting parts, though. My brother has an old truck snowplow that I've spoken for. I also have a piece of 3" pipe for one of the side bars.

I'll try to get some pictures of what I did for hydraulics. Basically I made a custom 2-sheave pulley that replaces the pulley that drives the waterpump and generator. This pulley drives a hydraulic pump that is hanging off the left side of the tractor. I made my own reservoir that sits in front of the radiator. When it's done, all of the original sheet-metal will go back on and cover it up. I didn't have to bore any holes in the frame or otherwise modify any existing parts, so I think it's a pretty clean design. Now if I only had that snowplow part done!

Jim

 

[Coolnorth]

No, I don't have a magneto. There's nothing behind that lobe at all. I don't know why they put the governor on the front. . . . I guess that's just the way they did it at that time?

Yeah, I think I'm gonna end up running long shafts from the back of the tractor. My front wheels swing out pretty wide when I turn. Also, I'm not sure about all that weight out there on the narrow front.

I recently bought a gray-market Yanmar, that'll probably be doing snowplow duty this year as it has a 5' loader bucket. So, the Massey project is on the back-burner right now. I'm still collecting parts, though. My brother has an old truck snowplow that I've spoken for. I also have a piece of 3" pipe for one of the side bars.

I'll try to get some pictures of what I did for hydraulics. Basically I made a custom 2-sheave pulley that replaces the pulley that drives the waterpump and generator. This pulley drives a hydraulic pump that is hanging off the left side of the tractor. I made my own reservoir that sits in front of the radiator. When it's done, all of the original sheet-metal will go back on and cover it up. I didn't have to bore any holes in the frame or otherwise modify any existing parts, so I think it's a pretty clean design. Now if I only had that snowplow part done!

Jim

Jim, I will have a look in my Massey manual and see if that can be put on the backside of the gear-train lobe, just out of curiosity.

I like your thinking on the hydraulic pump - I was NOT thinking at all about a dual sheave pulley setup. That would allow for more flexibility as far as optional accessories go. Can you say, "Power Steering"? OK, not really needed, but the thought crosses my mind.

What is a "gray market" Yanmar, might I ask? I saw a nice SCUT here on a landscaping job the other day...

 

[Jim2]

I like your thinking on the hydraulic pump - I was NOT thinking at all about a dual sheave pulley setup. That would allow for more flexibility as far as optional accessories go. Can you say, "Power Steering"? OK, not really needed, but the thought crosses my mind.

Yeah, the dual sheave is pretty cool that way. It is a tight fit, though. There is *barely* enough room there behind the fan. Occasionally there is a "tick" sound as the fan blade kisses it as it turns. I don't think it's going to hurt anything as the both fan and pulley are heavy-duty. Hopefully they'll learn to get along. . . .

I saw a picture on Ebay or somewhere where a guy ran a shaft off of the lobe where the governor runs and used that to power an aftermarket hydraulic pump. He had it set up to angle off to the side with a universal joint. . . . I'm not sure how well that might work--just another idea from someone who's tried something different.

Say, have you ever thought of using a cultivator lift to run your cable instead of the winch? You're already using a cable to lift, You could just run the cable from the back of the tractor. They seem to go pretty cheap if you seem them on Ebay. I s'pose that might interfere with your slightly-modified seat though, too.

What is a "gray market" Yanmar, might I ask? I saw a nice SCUT here on a landscaping job the other day...

A gray-market tractor is one that was manufactured for sale in another country and then imported to the US as a used machine. The manufacturer doesn't support the tractor in the US as it doesn't have some of the safety features that are required by law. See Who Makes Yanmar Tractors?

 

[Coolnorth]

Yeah, the dual sheave is pretty cool that way. It is a tight fit, though. There is *barely* enough room there behind the fan. Occasionally there is a "tick" sound as the fan blade kisses it as it turns. I don't think it's going to hurt anything as the both fan and pulley are heavy-duty. Hopefully they'll learn to get along. . . .

I saw a picture on Ebay or somewhere where a guy ran a shaft off of the lobe where the governor runs and used that to power an aftermarket hydraulic pump. He had it set up to angle off to the side with a universal joint. . . . I'm not sure how well that might work--just another idea from someone who's tried something different.

Say, have you ever thought of using a cultivator lift to run your cable instead of the winch? You're already using a cable to lift, You could just run the cable from the back of the tractor. They seem to go pretty cheap if you seem them on Ebay. I s'pose that might interfere with your slightly-modified seat though, too.



A gray-market tractor is one that was manufactured for sale in another country and then imported to the US as a used machine. The manufacturer doesn't support the tractor in the US as it doesn't have some of the safety features that are required by law. See Who Makes Yanmar Tractors?

Yikes! Well, eventually the fan won't "kiss" the sheave after a while - it's lips will bend or wear off.
I heard an awful racket (from under the hood) the other night while pushing some sand off the yard, sounded like gears grinding - I think the fan blade contacted something while I was pushing the pile at an odd angle, maybe flexed the frame more than usual and touched the rad cradle - I cannot see any obvious damage but the kids all came running to see what happened.

I would love to find a lift unit for my tractor - I engineered the seat to stay out of the way of the lift - patterned off the old seat mount. Eventually I want to install a hydraulic lift cylinder on the plow as I've mentioned,maybe also a hydraulic angle control, too. I built an electric "spool piece" for controlling the lift, but of course, it's just "on-off-on" so feathering the blade is difficult. It took some thinking to utilize the original winch switch and create a control with a nice "touch" to it. It's all mounted in an old printer LPT switch box on the fender of the Massey.

OK, gray-market, I get it. I have a friend who was selling Toyotas, Hondas, etc from Japan - right hand drive, low milage, no rust. Our roads are treated with salt here in the winter so sheetmetal takes a beating and a "rust-free" used car sounds pretty attractive to many.

 

[Jim2]

I took a few pics of the hydraulics that I added to my 81. They didn't turn out real well as my camera is pretty cheap, it was dark, etc. They're at:
My Massey Folder on Photobucket

Here's one of them:

Sorry for the size

Jim

 

[Coolnorth]

Now I've got the picture. (no pun intended!)

That looks like an excellent idea for connecting hydraulics - the whole layout. Thanks for sending it along!

I may have to think about your layout a bit more - it could be the answer. I see you have the "velvet-ride" seating on your RC. (Boy, that was a marketing name, eh?) See the lettering page attached.

 

[Jim2]

Now I've got the picture. (no pun intended!)

That looks like an excellent idea for connecting hydraulics - the whole layout. Thanks for sending it along!

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with it so far. I think it's pretty elegant as I didn't need to actually modify any existing parts. The sheetmetal will still fit on to cover everything up. There are a couple of parts that I will have to leave off--screen over the radiator, and half-moon shaped, sheetmetal baffle that sat on top of the steering gear.

Obviously it's not really tested as you can see I don't have any lines coming off the controls yet.

I may have to think about your layout a bit more - it could be the answer. I see you have the "velvet-ride" seating on your RC. (Boy, that was a marketing name, eh?) See the lettering page attached.

Yeah, the hardest part I would think would be that dual-sheave pulley. I hate to say what I paid for that! I bought a chunk of ductile cast from McMaster-Carr for something like $60. Then I spent almost 2 weeks machining it myself. The fit is pretty good, but being an amatuer like I am, it would be difficult for me to duplicate it.

re: the velvet-ride seat. The original was replaced when the springs gave way with somebody (probably grandpa) driving it. Luckily that did not do him in. I was talking to someone last year who hauled milk for many years. He told the story of coming upon an accident scene where the farmer was not so lucky. Apparently one of those flat-steel seat supports gave away while the unlucky fellow was pulling a fully loaded spreader. He tumbled off and under the wheels apparently. . . . The velvet ride is not original, but I don't want to risk an accident either.

Jim

 

[Coolnorth]

Noting in your picture that belt to the pump...what is that? It looks segmented or something. Also, what is the advantage/disadvantage of belt vs. direct drive for hydraulics?

I know very little about cast iron, other than the fact you really cannot weld on it too much, without temperature control on the object (i.e. oven) and some pretty soft mig wire. Is the original front pulley made of cast? Could you center another sheave on it and weld it together?

The photo is the truck spring shackle bushing (cast) with 1 inch conduit welded into it. This worked better than the thermostat housing I tried to repair last year (also cast) by welding the fracture with my MIG. When it cools, little cracks and fissures start to happen as it cools too fast and thus ends up being more damaged. The bushing pictured never did any of that type of cracking at all. Hmmmm....
Graham

 

[Jim2]

Noting in your picture that belt to the pump...what is that? It looks segmented or something. Also, what is the advantage/disadvantage of belt vs. direct drive for hydraulics?

I got that belt at Harbor Freight--interestingly, it's one of the few domestically manufactured items that I've found in that store! I chose that belt because:

1) I bought it before I had made the brackets, and it is adjustable for length. I didn't have to worry that it would fit!
2) I can put it on and remove it without removing the lower radiator hose.

These types of belts are also supposed to run smoother. I really don't care about that feature in this application, but woodworkers sometimes put them on their power saws for that reason.

As far as direct-drive vs. belt goes, I'm not an expert or anything. I do know that there is a risk of fatigue in the shaft of the pump if it is direct drive and you don't have a lovejoy coupler or universal joint or something in there. Belt drives wouldn't have that problem.

Likewise some hydraulic pumps aren't rated for the side-load that you'll be adding with a belt, so you have to pick a pump that can handle it. This pump is rated for belt.

I know very little about cast iron, other than the fact you really cannot weld on it too much, without temperature control on the object (i.e. oven) and some pretty soft mig wire. Is the original front pulley made of cast? Could you center another sheave on it and weld it together?

Yes, the original pulley is cast, and quite thin. There isn't much room in there either. Here's a drawing that I made of the original pulley.

There is basically zero clearance behind the pulley as it actually is inserted into the front of the engine. An oil seal rides on that portion. I just noticed that I left off a bevel that makes it easier to insert the pulley into those oil seals. Overall, I think the drawing is pretty accurate, though reverse-engineering was pretty hard. I did a lot of head-scratching to get the measurements, and I can't really say how accurate they are for sure. Take note of how thin that pulley is though. I've tried to show that with the dashed line on the lower view of the pulley. Those curves are all cast, too. There aren't very many good machined references until you get way to the outside of the pulley.

I couldn't weld it. I'm not a particularly good welder, though either. I find welding to be a very humbling experience, LOL! Though, I am quite persistant and eventually get what I want--it just takes a lot of grinding and "second" tries sometimes. . . .

The photo is the truck spring shackle bushing (cast) with 1 inch conduit welded into it. This worked better than the thermostat housing I tried to repair last year (also cast) by welding the fracture with my MIG. When it cools, little cracks and fissures start to happen as it cools too fast and thus ends up being more damaged. The bushing pictured never did any of that type of cracking at all. Hmmmm....
Graham

Gee, that sounds like my experience with welding water-pipe fittings! I tried to weld a coupler into that hydraulic tank. It didn't look too bad. I actually thought that it had worked until I filled it with oil, and it starting leaking! I had to tear it down and put a steel fitting in instead. I learned something though. Don't try to weld water-pipe fittings to make a tank!

Jim