Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #10,901  
You need to understand how our system works. The 3-phase lines atop our poles are generally 13 - 15 kV in residential or semi-rural areas. In industrial districts, they will commonly run three lines to transformers, dropping each to 277 volts to ground, which gives you 480 volts between phases (delta configuration). In "light commercial" districts, they'll do the same but to 208 volt (Y-configuration, with neutral), which gives you a convenient 120V to ground.

But in residential districts, it really makes no sense to add the enormous cost of three transformers for each house or grouping of houses, rather they pull just one phase to a single-phase transformer, for each group of several houses. As you move down the road, they alternate the phase to which they're attaching each local transformer, so the load stays roughly balanced back to the substation.

None of this is by accident or happenstance, it is a highly-optimized system, that has developed over many decades. Those thinking they have some more efficient answer are usually just ignorant of all of the costs involved, with regard to installation, transmission efficiency, and repair or maintenance costs.

As to "most of the western world", are you implying that most other countries run 3-phase power directly into residential buildings? I suppose it's possible, but I wasn't aware of that.
I had 3-phase put into the cabin in Austria… it wasn’t extra to get it and it powers the 380v electric continuous flow hot water heaters easily.

It was cheaper in cost and taxes to avoid the electric hot water heaters and additional plumbing.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #10,902  
My question is with 50 cent kWh electricity a reality how much higher can it go?

PGE SF Bay Area with the added taxes…
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #10,903  
Is harder to utilize. There are no 3-phase incandescent light bulbs. Harder to implement in electric motors, the only reason one bothers is when the increased efficiency pays for the cost.
3 phase motors are the most common electric motors, and are simple and cheap. Nobody has three phase lights In normal houses, but you have three phases to distribute your electric load, and all the distribution grid is 3 phase so it makes no point not to use it in to the house. But in the US you have a lot of small transformers, here we have large transformers and distribution goes from that to the consumer, this is the norm in the part of Europe where German design is dominant. And I do believe it's very common in the rest of Europe.

Picture of a very common trafo

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   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #10,904  
As to "most of the western world", are you implying that most other countries run 3-phase power directly into residential buildings? I suppose it's possible, but I wasn't aware of that.

Yes, has been common and has been for many decades, even small apartments often have it, but in such cases it can be on phase.

It's rare to find one phase in any building that has been upgraded since the fifties.

In some very cheap housing the cable is three phases in to the distribution panel but only one phase is used.

But we have one transformer serving many houses.

The most common voltage north Europe are three phase 400V.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #10,905  
A trafo in it natural habitat
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   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #10,906  
A poke mounted trafo
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   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #10,908  
...all the distribution grid is 3 phase so it makes no point not to use it in to the house.
I think you have that backwards. There's no point in running 3-phase into a house, when the power consumption will never justify the increased cost of the associated components. All of our appliances are designed to run on single-phase, and even those houses having three phase (eg. those built into old commercial buildings) use only single-phase power for their appliances.

Yes, has been common and has been for many decades, even small apartments often have it, but in such cases it can be on phase.

It's rare to find one phase in any building that has been upgraded since the fifties.
Remember, population density. You're talking about large apartment buildings, to a forum of people living on rural farms and homesteads. Yes, our large apartment buildings in cities do have 3-phase power (208V y-config, as I already described above). But single homes generally do not.
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #10,909  
I think you have that backwards. There's no point in running 3-phase into a house, when the power consumption will never justify the increased cost of the associated components. All of our appliances are designed to run on single-phase, and even those houses having three phase (eg. those built into old commercial buildings) use only single-phase power for their appliances.


Remember, population density. You're talking about large apartment buildings, to a forum of people living on rural farms and homesteads. Yes, our large apartment buildings in cities do have 3-phase power (208V y-config, as I already described above). But single homes generally do not.
Well, it's more common on single houses or farms, my farm has 3 X 125A 240V, unfortunately I have the outdated 240V and not a 400V system :(
 
   / Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2 #10,910  
And this is a discussion involving EV and home charging it's relevant, you can charge faster with a 3 phase charger running on 400V.
 
 
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