Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[Fuddyduddy1952]

O'Reilly has a 2022 Model 3 battery for $250!

 

[shooterdon]

That will be the reality with the used EV market going forward, factoring in the price for battery replacement. He is lucky, at least there is a battery available for his car. The 2014 Ford Focus EV battery is no longer available from Ford. There are aftermarket remanufactured batteries available for $15,000.

This will be an issue for all EVs but is not confined to EVs. Some orphan tractors do not have an EOM parts supply available. But the parts for an EV are definitely proprietary. Manufacturers can't afford to have OEM parts that expensive with a short shelf life sitting in inventory going bad or the manufacturer will no longer be in business. Once the warranty period for that year and model has expired, parts could be in short supply, especially with the changes in battery technology.

For those folks that want an EV leasing would be the smartest option, turn it back in when the warranty runs out. The cost to buy a used EV and replace the battery will exceed the price of a new one. EVs will become disposable, use it till the battery goes bad and then send it to the salvage yard as no one will buy it. Will be interesting to see what dealers do for prices when trading in vehicles out of warranty. KBB shows the trade-in price for a 2015 Model S, which is out of the 8-year battery warranty, to average $11,000.

The good news is NAPA carries 14 different spark plugs for a Tesla Model 3.

Florida family drives into electric car problem: a replacement battery costs more than vehicle itself

2011-2018 Ford Focus EV Remanufactured Battery | 36mo WTY

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I have posted this before. I am not against EV's and would consider them as you stated...a disposable car.

An EV "puddle jumper" for say $25k. Deduct the incentive of $7500. Figure about $500 a year for energy. (12k miles at $.04/mile).After 10 years cost to own is $17,500 plus $5000 for energy. Scrap value after 10 years $1000. Net of $22.5k So a cost of $2250 a year.

An ICE "puddle jumper" that costs $25k will be worth about $10k. 12k miles a year at 30 mpg with $3.50 gas comes to $14k. Total cost after 10 years $29k or $2900/yr

The difference is $650/year ...less than $2 a day. But with the ICE, there is no range anxiety, no need to park in a certain spot at home to charge, no cords to deal with, less waiting if you take it on a trip and need to "fuel up". And the ICE can be repaired almost anywhere.

I will spend the extra $2/day and let the next generation worry about "saving the planet".

Note: Without the "incentive" the EV saves nothing. And that incentitive is not going to be a long term solution to propping up EV sales.

BTW, filled up yesterday for $2.65/gal in the middle of nowhere in northern Michigan at a village that is miles away from an EV charger.

 

[wawajake]

I have posted this before. I am not against EV's and would consider them as you stated...a disposable car.

An EV "puddle jumper" for say $25k. Deduct the incentive of $7500. Figure about $500 a year for energy. (12k miles at $.04/mile).After 10 years cost to own is $17,500 plus $5000 for energy. Scrap value after 10 years $1000. Net of $22.5k So a cost of $2250 a year.

An ICE "puddle jumper" that costs $25k will be worth about $10k. 12k miles a year at 30 mpg with $3.50 gas comes to $14k. Total cost after 10 years $29k or $2900/yr

The difference is $650/year ...less than $2 a day. But with the ICE, there is no range anxiety, no need to park in a certain spot at home to charge, no cords to deal with, less waiting if you take it on a trip and need to "fuel up". And the ICE can be repaired almost anywhere.

I will spend the extra $2/day and let the next generation worry about "saving the planet".

Note: Without the "incentive" the EV saves nothing. And that incentitive is not going to be a long term solution to propping up EV sales.

BTW, filled up yesterday for $2.65/gal in the middle of nowhere in northern Michigan at a village that is miles away from an EV charger.

Excellent points...I hope to drive to Florida from Sault Ste Marie this winter, and I suspect I can do it in 2 overnights, so hopefully can get thru Michigan and do Dayton Ohio first night and hopefully similar gas prices there for maybe first fillup in my ICE. I can only imagine how many stops I would need to get to lower Florida in an EV . Probably would even need an extra overnight and considering three of us going with a months worth of luggage it would take a $100,000 Tesla to be big enough! So my $50,000 4wd Jeep will handle with no anxiety and more economically all factors in.

 

[txdon]

I saw a small pack of cyberTrucks today about 25, in the parking lot of the Austin Tesla giga plant.
My wife blurted out wow they are ugly.
I thought they looked futuristic.

 

[WinterDeere]

Excellent points...I hope to drive to Florida from Sault Ste Marie this winter, and I suspect I can do it in 2 overnights, so hopefully can get thru Michigan and do Dayton Ohio first night and hopefully similar gas prices there for maybe first fillup in my ICE. I can only imagine how many stops I would need to get to lower Florida in an EV . Probably would even need an extra overnight and considering three of us going with a months worth of luggage it would take a $100,000 Tesla to be big enough! So my $50,000 4wd Jeep will handle with no anxiety and more economically all factors in.

Geez... Canada to Florida by car?!? You know they have these planes now, that'd get you there in all of 3-4 hours?

I drove Philly to Florida when I was young, poor, inexperienced, and gas was $0.90/gal. Never again!

Bonus: You can rent some really fun cars in Florida, and then drive them like a rented car!

If I ever buy an EV, trips to Florida won't be held up by having to charge the stupid thing along the way, 'cuz it'll be sitting at the airport parking lot just 40 miles from home.

 

[shooterdon]

Funny about the last couple of posts wrt driving to Florida. We may be heading down in February with friends.

I used to fly 100k+ miles a year and grew to hate flying. We are now deciding whether to fly or drive. I know I would rather drive but will do with what the group wants to do.

About 1400 miles. Two long days of windshield time both ways. Fuel cost with the F150 will be about $500 and add another $150 for "wear and tear". Add in one night of accommodation for $100/couple each way. $850 for four of us. If we take the Subaru, fuel drops to $300...cost of $650.

Cheapest flight is $315 ea. 6.5 hour each way. Arrive at airport 1 hour early and drive 1.5 hours to airport plus another hour from MCO to where we are staying for a travel time of 9 hours each way. One day of travel. Add in a rental car for 7 days for $350. Cost for four of us comes to $1600. Is it worth spending two more days travelling to save $750-950?

 

[WinterDeere]

Is it worth spending two more days travelling to save $750-950?

This is one of the two factors I always consider, anymore. When I was an employee, I had limited vacation time. Now I'm self-employed, my time is money, quite literally. If I were retired, all that goes out the window, and taking the slow bus might be more appealing, with the opportunity to see things along the way.

The second factor is safety. I used to do a lot of long-distance drives, and it was rare to do a 1000+ mile trip without seeing at least one major accident, and sometimes even almost being caught in one. Flying most places is just so much safer, nearly eliminating highway hours, other than perhaps an hour at either end of the trip.

Security and customs can be a PITA for those who don't have a TTN or Global Pass/Pre-Check, but I invested in getting all of that many years ago, and just keep renewing it. I walk right past the customs line to a terminal where I self-declare, and have my own shorter security line at most major airports. Well-worth the cost of admission, even if only used once a year for a vacation, now.

 

[wawajake]

Geez... Canada to Florida by car?!? You know they have these planes now, that'd get you there in all of 3-4 hours?

I drove Philly to Florida when I was young, poor, inexperienced, and gas was $0.90/gal. Never again!

Bonus: You can rent some really fun cars in Florida, and then drive them like a rented car!

If I ever buy an EV, trips to Florida won't be held up by having to charge the stupid thing along the way, 'cuz it'll be sitting at the airport parking lot just 40 miles from home.

My wife and her sister flew to Vegas last winter, it was a nightmare for her with snow delays and extra overnight and her limited mobility . So car it is and I love driving retired now adventures and we will take our time on return trip with perhaps detour to Nashville etc.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

This is a 1.5 hour interview with the author of the most recent book about what makes Elon Musk tick.

 

[Grumpycat]

Of course the guy that just spent $100,000 on Tesla would disagree with Auto reviews . .....but then the majority that spends $100,000 on a sedan car are making a " vanity" .... " look at me" purchase not a economic purchase.

Who just spent $100,000 on a Tesla? Not me. No where near.