Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[wawajake]

The Babyboomers embracing greed at the expense of the fewer and fewer babies is mind boogling.

The younger generation is going to upend the automotive industry in the end.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyotas-daihatsu-will-expand-production-halt-over-safety-scandal-nikkei-2023-12-20/

Mind boogling is what this post even means.....baby boomer greed ??? versus Toyota production halt ???

 

[NoTrespassing]

MSN

Austin, we have a problem! Tesla descends into battery hell​

AUSTIN, Texas (Reuters) - Elon Musk says prototypes are easy, production is hell. And when it comes to the long-awaited Cybertruck, Tesla's hell is its pioneering 4680 battery.

Tesla delivered the first of its futuristic stainless steel-plated electric pickups last month and CEO Musk said in October that it would probably hit an annual production rate of a quarter of a million vehicles at some point during 2025.

But Tesla is still a long way off that kind of production pace, and one of the main bottlenecks is the speed it can make the 4680 batteries used in the Cybertruck with its new dry-coating technology, nine people familiar with the matter said.

Tesla's Giga Texas factory is currently churning out 4680 battery cells at rate only sufficient to power about 24,000 Cybertrucks a year, or about a 10th of the required output, according to Reuters calculations based on a combination of public data and unpublished figures provided by sources.

Being able to ramp up battery output massively by dry-coating electrodes - rather than using the slower, more costly wet-coating - was a key factor behind Tesla's forecasts in 2020 that it would more than halve battery costs, cut investment significantly, and create smaller, greener factories.

The nine people, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said Tesla had yet to crack dry-coating at the industrial scale needed to make 4680 batteries fast enough to hit its production targets.

The people said dry-coating the anode in the 4680 cells was not problematic but Tesla was struggling with the same technique for the cathode - the most expensive component in a battery.

Dry-coating anodes and cathodes is proven in the laboratory, as well as for smaller energy storage devices such as super capacitors, and even some small batteries, according to Yuan Gao, a battery technology consultant.

"But no one has done it so far for large EV batteries at a mass scale and at a high enough speed. Tesla is the first one to try to commercialize this," said Gao, who has worked in the industry for three decades.

"The challenge is that not only does Tesla have to scale it up and speed up the process, it also must develop its own equipment and tools. It's daunting to say the least," he said.

Tesla did not respond to detailed questions from Reuters for this story.

CRACKING THE CODE

According to three of the sources, the 4680 batteries in Cybertrucks include an estimated 1,360 individual cells.

That means Tesla would need to make 340 million cells a year, or almost a million a day, to supply 250,000 of the electric pickups, which are entering a hot market with rivals such as Ford's F-150 Lightning, Rivian's R1T and an electric Hummer from General Motors.

 

[5030]

I don't really care one way or another actually and Reuters is a pay wall site and so far left I don't ever bother looking at it anyway. It's 'Screwters' not Reuters btw.

I've bought my last vehicle anyway and it gets 40 mpg consistently. Same with my wife and her Burb LTZ. of course it don't get 40, more like 18 but she don't care anyway and she buys the fuel, not me. In fact I do nothing to it. She has the dealer do all the service on it. Hard to complain about a vehicle that gets 40mpg and goes like a scalded dog if I want to, which I don't but 350 ponies in a 6 speed Focus Hatchback is insane anyway. Best part is, it insures as a family compact family sedan here in Michigan so insurance is cheap. Little do they know that it will literally suck the paint of 90% of the busses out that. Never ran a Tesla but I'd imagine it would be close.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

SAE's NACS certification is ready, and it’ll fix every EV charging problem at once

This covers the importance of 277 volts.

 

[5030]

a hot market with rivals such as Ford's F-150 Lightning, Rivian's R1T and an electric Hummer from General Motors.

I don't consider ANY of them HOT. More like dead cold around here especially. That Rivian is as fugly as Elon's new toaster truck. People today have no asthetic taste and Gale, you are included in that.

I see Stallatis (sic) is offering an optional gas genny for their upcoming electric vehicles, so when the battery goes dead, the owner can fire up the genny and recharge the battery. What a novel concept and no I didn't read that on Reuters either. Auto Nation instead. Gotta keep those carbon credits going, I'd say.

 

[5030]

SAE's NACS certification is ready, and it’ll fix every EV charging problem at once

This covers the importance of 277 volts.

OP)f course that all hinges on the availability of charging stations, the availability of sufficient electricity (I take it you have a short memory about Kalifonia and thier governors mandate about not charging toaster cars last year, of course Newsom is an idiot anyway and the fact that most of the juice comes from either Nuclear or coal or NG fired plants, all of which only the first one contribute to carbon emissions and the hoax of global warming. None of which I buy into because the earth is a closed environmental system so what gets emitted in carbon is eventually recycled on and on. People that buy into that global warming crap are just parroting false left wing information. Must be reading Associated Press articles, or CNN or Reuters as well.

it's all BS, aimed at taking more of your money, getting large corporations richer as well as the government.

 

[MossRoad]

Reuters is generally perceived as straight down the center, not left or right.

Reuters Fact Check Media Bias Rating

Learn the AllSides Media Bias Rating of Reuters Fact Check. AllSides rates the media bias of hundreds of news outlets, media sources and writers.

www.allsides.com

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

There's something no one seems to want to talk about except as an incentive or bonus:
EV rebates. $7,500 Federal (new), $4,000 (used). In addition state rebates, Virginia for example up to $12,000 federal+state rebates. Also D.O.E. $125 level 2 charger rebate.
The catch is of course rebates apply for taxpayers paying that or more in taxes...UP TO $150,000 AGI single, $300K married.
Think about it: this means less tax revenue collected while the higher income DO NOT qualify for a rebate. Those who pay the most tax get no benefit.
Of course it's not mandatory, but who would not take the rebates?
No matter how you look at it, it's boils down to taxpayers NOT buying an EV are paying for those who are buying one!
That $12,000 (Fed+state) is that much less money in the tax revenue till.
Additionally road fuel has Federal and state taxes in the price, 18.4c to 24.4c/gal Federal and 26.2c to 27c/gal Va. state tax.
There is no free lunch.
With increasing EVs means more rebates paid out and less road fuel tax. That money has to be replenished meaning higher electric bills and taxes for everyone.
Prospective EV buyers are only looking at these perks and no one wants to talk about the repercussions. I see it for what it is, simply another way of getting people into an EV.

 

[Oaktree]

The Babyboomers embracing greed at the expense of the fewer and fewer babies is mind boogling.

The younger generation is going to upend the automotive industry in the end.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. The article was about toyota cheating on safety tests on a division I've never heard of. What it's got to do with "greedy boomers" or young people "upending" the auto industry I have no idea.
Do you even read the articles you link to?

Confession; I'm a boomer with zero children (that I know of), so I guess I'm somehow embracing greed.

From its analysis of over 2.7 million car insurance applications, Insurify listed the 10 models with the most DUIs:

1. Ram 2500 pickup truck 45.3 per 1,000
2. Chevrolet S-10 pickup truck 35.9 per 1,000
3. BMW 4-Series sedan 31.7 per 1,000
4. Audi A4 sedan 31.1 per 1,000
5. Dodge Dakota pickup truck 30.5 per 1,000
6. Subaru WRX sedan 30.0 per 1,000
7. BMW 7-Series sedan 29.0 per 1,000
8. Ford Ranger pickup truck 28.9 per 1,000
9. Chevrolet Silverado pickup 28.3 per 1,000
10. GMC Sierra pickup 28.0 per 1,000
The Subaru WRX, sixth on the DUI list, received other attention.
It is the car model with the most speeding citations, the fourth rudest driving behaviors and is the third most accident prone.

OK, I get the WRX. They seem to be a favorite with the "ricer" crowd for some reason. Relatively young drivers who tend to be a bit reckless.
Dodge Dakota? Chevy S10? When did they stop building those trucks? I think the last year on the Dakota was 2011, pretty sure the S10 had been renamed the Colorado by that point. So we're talking some pretty old vehicles.
This list seems flawed.

 

[MossRoad]

I worry more about drunks on the road.

RAM at the Top as well
No Tesla


From its analysis of over 2.7 million car insurance applications, Insurify listed the 10 models with the most DUIs:

1. Ram 2500 pickup truck 45.3 per 1,000
2. Chevrolet S-10 pickup truck 35.9 per 1,000
3. BMW 4-Series sedan 31.7 per 1,000
4. Audi A4 sedan 31.1 per 1,000
5. Dodge Dakota pickup truck 30.5 per 1,000
6. Subaru WRX sedan 30.0 per 1,000
7. BMW 7-Series sedan 29.0 per 1,000
8. Ford Ranger pickup truck 28.9 per 1,000
9. Chevrolet Silverado pickup 28.3 per 1,000
10. GMC Sierra pickup 28.0 per 1,000
The Subaru WRX, sixth on the DUI list, received other attention.
It is the car model with the most speeding citations, the fourth rudest driving behaviors and is the third most accident prone.

https://www.witherspooncompton.com/blog/2020/12/vehicle-models-and-duis/

Rudest Drivers:

Car Models With the Rudest Drivers in 2021

Insurify ranked the 10 car models with the rudest drivers in 2021.

insurify.com

https://insurifycdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/car-modelsrude-drivers-2021-e1634592997997.png

Here's another chart from the same source, but 2 years later.