Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[WinterDeere]

Why used EVs aren’t selling.

No One Wants Used EVs, Making New Ones a Tougher Sell Too

(Bloomberg) -- The shift away from cars with dirty combustion engines is running into a new hurdle: Drivers don’t want to buy used electric vehicles, and that’s undermining the market for new ones, too.Most Read from BloombergHyperloop One to Shut Down After Failing to Reinvent TransitTencent...

finance.yahoo.com

This was to be expected. Heck, even 15+ years ago when the Prius was first selling big, I was telling friends interested in that sort of thing to lease, not buy. Never put big money into buying and owning any quickly-developing immature technology.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

This one's a long play, but John Oliver is almost always worth the time, always hilarious if nothing else. The salient point of this one, WRT full self-driving (FSD) is that Tesla is saving millions by not employing professional drivers to test FSD, and rather pushing beta software out into the public to let them be the beta testers. His problem with this is that while some 50,000 drivers have agreed to become beta testers, the public surrounding them have not agreed to this.

In typical JO fashion, "No one got a push-alert on their phone saying, 'Hey, Tesla here! Please consent to take part in the beta test that is currently hurtling towards you. Do hurry, time is a factor.'"

He goes on to discuss Musk's assertion that pushing back on acceptance of FSD today "would be killing people," and his feelings about Musk's implication that any deaths caused by the software today would be more than offset by lives saved in the future. He argues that while Tesla released press claiming, "incontrovertible data that shows [FSD] is saving lives and preventing injury", they have subsequently dodged every request to actually produce this data, stating only, "more detailed information will be publicly available in the near future."

FSD stuff starts almost exactly at mid-point in video, it's more Paypal, Twitter (X) and SpaceX stuff, prior to that.

John Oliver is a well paid comedian that I enjoy. Do you know what version of FSD he is personally using today?

FSD reminds of 5G cellphone service. A lot people refuse to study and learn the facts about new technology and are happy to let others even if less knowledgeable to do their life critical thinking for themselves and family members.

I started this thread in 2019 after growing up plowing in tobacco patches starring at the back side of a mule when it became clear to me that the move to EVs was past the point of no return.

Within a few weeks I drove the F-150 a couple hundred of miles to St. Louis Missouri and bought a 2016 Nissan leaf SL and hauled it back on a U-Haul trailer that same night.

It was the car I had envisioned finding. Most importantly it had an end of life stage lithium ion traction battery and an electric heat pump for heat and cooling.

Other pluses it was a new beautiful blue with leather interior with every factory option offered. At 22K miles it looked new even though it was 3 years old. In short it was the ideal first EV for us to decide if EVs were in our long term future.

They wanted $18.5K but sold it to me for $13.5K because of my special needs and the $12K of cash I put on the salesman's desk. He left for a long meeting in the managers office. Finally I had to pee so asked someone in the hall where was the bathroom. When I got back to the office the $12,000 in cash was missing.

 

[WinterDeere]

John Oliver is a well paid comedian that I enjoy. Do you know what version of FSD he is personally using today?

I don't know if he is using FSD, or if that's even relevant to the information being conveyed. When any television personality or news anchor presents a story, I don't ask if they were personally witness to or present in the events about which they are reporting. They have teams of writers and journalists preparing the stories which they present, as the talking head.

FSD reminds of 5G cellphone service. A lot people refuse to study and learn the facts about new technology and are happy to let others even if less knowledgeable to do their life critical thinking for themselves and family members.

This story wasn't about the state of FSD tech, but actually the ethics over allowing the public to beta test something that's admittedly a work in progress, and calling out the cited "abundant data" that is somehow never actually provided.

For the record, I do believe FSD will someday be better than human drivers, in most scenarios. It's an inevitability. But the way Tesla is rolling it out is very questionable, and appears to be under-handed to many outside observers.

I started this thread in 2019 after growing up plowing in tobacco patches starring at the back side of a mule when it became clear to me that the move to EVs was past the point of no return.

Okay... not sure where you're going with this.

Within a few weeks I drove the F-150 a couple hundred of miles to St. Louis Missouri and bought a 2016 Nissan leaf SL and hauled it back on a U-Haul trailer that same night.

It was the car I had envisioned finding. Most importantly it had an end of life stage lithium ion traction battery and an electric heat pump for heat and cooling.

Other pluses it was a new beautiful blue with leather interior with every factory option offered. At 22K miles it looked new even though it was 3 years old. In short it was the ideal first EV for us to decide if EVs were in our long term future.

They wanted $18.5K but sold it to me for $13.5K because of my special needs and the $12K of cash I put on the salesman's desk. He left for a long meeting in the managers office. Finally I had to pee so asked someone in the hall where was the bathroom. When I got back to the office the $12,000 in cash was missing.

I'm lost. What does any of this have to do with beta testing FSD software, Elon Musk, or any part of the post to which you're responding?

 

[wawajake]

Gale is having a bad week of incoherent posts. Now I am all for respecting elders in society, but at some point either a elder's family or close friends need to be honest with them about their limitations and or senility. My daughter is a nurse that Manages an "elderly at home " Nursing program to liaison between the elderly patient and "Doctor care" , to allow them to stay at home as long as feasible. So she also does various i home verbal testing and reccomends Drivers License removal where required. The verbal testing she has shared is quite interesting and seems applicable sometimes here at TBN.

 

[ruffdog]

Seems like the worst of both worlds, so to speak. All the cost and repairability limitations of stainless outers, with all the corrosion potential of coated steel inners. If you need to laminate stainless and plain steels, you'd think they'd reverse it, and put painted steel on the outside (easy repair) and stainless inside (no structural corrosion).

I also wonder how well the heavy stainless skin will stay spot welded to the inner door after a few years of door slams.

 

[Grumpycat]

Gee, what is this world coming to. With the big demand for EVs I keep reading about and now more Ford dealers are opting out of selling EVs. Just like the GM dealers dropping Buick. But what do they know, they are just the ones selling vehicles to the masses. They probably don't keep up on new vehicle sales numbers.

Only Half of All Ford Dealers Agree to Sell EVs Next Year | OilPrice.com

Only half of the dealers agree to sell half-assed EVs. Duh?

They beg for Teslas. Many states (including Alabama) forbid direct sales by automobile manufacturers, gifting an exclusive to the new car sales market to the state Automobile Dealer's Association.

 

[Grumpycat]

They aren't stainless steel 'plated', you cannot plate stainless in the first place.

Well, it is difficult.

In 1980 working for Chicago Bridge & Iron we were buying stainless steel clad plate. Most was 1" thick carbon steel with 1/8" of stainless steel cladding. Essentially two plates welded together at high temperature in the steel plate rolling process.

Every plate had to be ultrasonic tested to verify the stainless steel cladding was bonded. If not we had to cut that section out and use stainless steel welding rod to fill the area.

We had a lot of trouble with delivery times and quality of domestic steel, especially stainless steel clad. We could get it cheaper, better, and faster from Japan if our customer permitted.

These plates were used for catalytic reactors necessary for the additional refining required of unleaded gasoline.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I also wonder how well the heavy stainless skin will stay spot welded to the inner door after a few years of door slams.

While this is a gaint space age experiment after building ten million and putting 1 million miles on several it will be interesting to see what the results look like.

After they get them debugged and lots of miles on them, they should be an awesome vehicle for Mars the long-term goal. So far most all vehicles sent off world have been EVs that are self-driving so that'll be another application for FSD.

In time, the 48 volt architect is expected to shave $1,000 off the cost of a new vehicle per Sandy Munro. I would like a 3/4 scale Cyber truck.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

China's Renewable Energy Capacity Tops 50% Milestone | OilPrice.com

As they nudge their energy costs towards zero, this will be help them build low price high quality EVs in the future for USA market.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

While this is a gaint space age experiment after building ten million and putting 1 million miles on several it will be interesting to see what the results look like.

After they get them debugged and lots of miles on them, they should be an awesome vehicle for Mars the long-term goal. So far most all vehicles sent off world have been EVs that are self-driving so that'll be another application for FSD.

In time, the 48 volt architect is expected to shave $1,000 off the cost of a new vehicle per Sandy Munro. I would like a 3/4 scale Cyber truck.

"they should be an awesome vehicle for Mars the long-term goal."

I'm thinking lots of Tesla owners are ALREADY on Mars.
I'm sorry...
Most likely the ultimate goal is after man screws up Earth then Mars will be next.