Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[txdon]

Riding a motorcycle that achieves 55mpg is just as cheap as charging an EV, and acquisition cost much less. I guess when the weather warms, that's what I'll focus on

But then you will have to buy a second form of transportation for bad weather and don't dare get in anyones blind spot and watch out for road debris and animal on the road, they can be deadly.

 

[WM75Guy]

I am looking at replacing my 3 15 y/o hot water heaters to get the federal tax credit (30% of cost, up to $2,000). What I found interesting was that new electric hot water heaters sold in the states of Washington and Oregon have to have a port to allow connection to the power company. To be able to decrease the load on the grid during periods of peak power demand, the power company can turn your hot water heater off. I hope they don't do the same for home EV chargers. That would suck, thinking your car was charging only to find out it wasn't. But hey, that is what you get for living in a nanny state.

 

[wawajake]

I suspect most locales are nowhere near the critical mass of EV's with regular night charging, to see the effect, yet. Even then, rates may continue to increase, but at a lesser rate than they would have otherwise, if the savings are less than inflation or other rising costs.

Winterdeere, your outlook is an Engineer's view, however in real life and infrastructure upgrades needed ( see what Netherlands is experiencing now) ......and past history shows increased rates is always the outcome. ...but how about a friendly bet, the year 2033 January 15, lets compare what rates went to.....a case if Canadian beer for you , or a case of American weak beer for me.....

 

[NoTrespassing]

I think this podcast may have been posted earlier about the charging problems in Chicago, but I just watched it and it is very good and there is a lot of learning for people to charge EVS in unusual weather and that includes me for sure.

The lack of liquid water has been the big thing on my mind of late. We have about 15 animals outside. Nine mini horses, a mule and a quarter horse Arabian mix the mother of the mule Our surface water system fails well before +3F but we are coping.

The Chicago charging stories raises a lot of questions so I have experimenting some with the Tesla battery heating features. For heating there is the heat pump system and I also read for the model y 2023 has resistant heat in the battery as well.

If I go to defrost mode in the current temperatures it defaults battery heating mode like as if you was going to a supercharger. When I exit defrost mode and just go to regular heat mode and tell it to maintain a temperature of 60 f the battery heating element. I assume in the battery it's got the three squiggly lines just like for the electric seat heaters etc. It keeps burning and and by case I did the defrost for maybe 5 minutes. Then went to regular heat mode of about 30 minutes before the three squiggly lines went away, which meant the battery was not heated. So I'm assuming the squiggly lines is involving battery heating using
the resistant heating elements. The Tesla only has access to 16 oz of 2 20 because I tap in one leg of my 220 to run a long distance extension cord to a barn for water trough heating and do not want to risk any of the system to overload in these perilous times.

The battery pack drops at the rate similar to driving 60 mph down the road so that resistant heat plus the heat pump must be putting a pretty good load on the battery to pull that kind of amperage.

I do understand wanting to charge to 100% if you have no other access to charging your Tesla sure. By 2050 these kinds of issues should be a thing from the distant past.

For people with access to at least a 20 amp 220 volt outlet which can give you up to 16 amps should have no problem managing. Access to a 40 amp 2. 20 volt outlet would be awesome.

Today informed money knows to only buy Tesla if you're going to work the daylights out of your EV. Things may get interesting as ever. Tom, Dick and Harry has access to the Tesla charger Network, but I expect to see many more high-speed superchargers added to the network across the USA.

Personally, if I could not charge it home economically I would not want to own an EV just yet. Our leaf does just fine with 120 volt connection because that gives you gives us 6 miles per hour of charging. So driving 30 mi a day would not be a problem but you still are seriously limited.

Heck, if I didn't have the equivalence of an engineering degree in electronics, I'm not sure that I would have an EV today. 50 years ago when I was in the naval A and B schools, I never dreamed EVs would come to the forefront like today. In fact, I didn't even know what EV was. . Our 2007 golf cart with regen was really the first time I thought of the concept of EVS as being viable to go in at speeds of 200 mph or over long distance.

Gale, you have a habit of quoting the year 2050 lately. What are these poor suckers in Chicago supposed to do for the next 26 years besides get their Teslas towed, be late for work or to pick up their kids etc.? If I was one of those people waiting 6 hours to charge in minus 10 F. I would probably be selling my Tesla ASAP.

 

[NoTrespassing]

MSN

With carmakers in a ‘state of shock’ over Tesla-beating BYD’s prices, EU investigators will visit China’s EV giants as part of an anti-subsidy probe​

“No one can match BYD on price. Period,” Michael Dunne, CEO of Asia-focused car consultancy Dunne Insights, told the Financial Times earlier this month. “Boardrooms in America, Europe, Korea, and Japan are in a state of shock.”

Tesla CEO Elon Musk has gone from laughing about the quality of BYD cars in 2011 to suggesting recently that Chinese companies will emerge as dominant players in the global automotive industry.

In the EU, Chinese EV makers face 10% tariffs, versus 27.5% in the U.S. That’s encouraged them to target Europe as their home market gets increasingly crowded, although they’re also growing in Southeast Asia, Mexico, Australia, and elsewhere. Indeed, China has recently overtaken Japan as the world’s largest car exporter.

This month, BYD’s first chartered cargo ship—dubbed the “BYD Explorer No. 1”—embarked on its maiden voyage. Capable of carrying 7,000 cars, its destination is, predictably, Europe.

 

[Egon]

Charging EV‘s will evolve in the same fashion the electrical power grids/individual house electricity came about.

Just consider combination parking meters or parking lots supplied with outlets!

Remember when there were no gasoline pumps or car repair shops. There were Lots of stables or blacksmith shops servicing horses or wagons!

 

[WinterDeere]

'Using more power at night, rates would increase but at a lesser rate than they would have otherwise, if the savings are less than inflation or other rising costs.'
Now, that just makes no sense to me. To me any utility their production costs increases with usage regardless of peak or off peak times. It certainly would lessen the load and stress but they are and will increase rates.
Same with water. Increasing usage during peak demand would necessitate larger/more pipes. Off peak may (may) not require production demand...eventually it will along with costs (nothing is free, someone pays).

No, inflation-adjusted cost per kWh will always fall with increased production. Economics 101, economies of scale.

If you're making a billion of anything, whether kilowatts of Furbies, you can leverage better economy than if you're making a thousand. That covers the generation side, mostly.

On the transmission side of the equation, cost is fixed, the wires are there and being underutilized at night. Any usage that reduces the max/min ratio will better utilize this fixed cost, amortizing the same dollars spent over a larger MWh count.

 

[WinterDeere]

Winterdeere, your outlook is an Engineer's view, however in real life and infrastructure upgrades needed ( see what Netherlands is experiencing now) ......and past history shows increased rates is always the outcome. ...but how about a friendly bet, the year 2033 January 15, lets compare what rates went to.....a case if Canadian beer for you , or a case of American weak beer for me.....

Oh, definitely. Let's not forget... politics! I'm laying out the "all things equal" case, whereas things like politics, corruption, and other forms of human intervention can always create a "not all things equal" scenario.

 

[5030]

MSN

With carmakers in a ‘state of shock’ over Tesla-beating BYD’s prices, EU investigators will visit China’s EV giants as part of an anti-subsidy probe​

“No one can match BYD on price. Period,” Michael Dunne, CEO of Asia-focused car consultancy Dunne Insights, told the Financial Times earlier this month. “Boardrooms in America, Europe, Korea, and Japan are in a state of shock.”

Tesla CEO Elon Musk has gone from laughing about the quality of BYD cars in 2011 to suggesting recently that Chinese companies will emerge as dominant players in the global automotive industry.

In the EU, Chinese EV makers face 10% tariffs, versus 27.5% in the U.S. That’s encouraged them to target Europe as their home market gets increasingly crowded, although they’re also growing in Southeast Asia, Mexico, Australia, and elsewhere. Indeed, China has recently overtaken Japan as the world’s largest car exporter.

This month, BYD’s first chartered cargo ship—dubbed the “BYD Explorer No. 1”—embarked on its maiden voyage. Capable of carrying 7,000 cars, its destination is, predictably, Europe.

Wonder if it will wind up like the Freemantle RoRo?

 

[WM75Guy]

We made a road trip to the rodeo last Saturday, about 250 miles. Went from Athens to north Dallas for art class, over to Fort Worth for the rodeo, and back home. The cold front hit when we were in class, dropped the temp from 61 degrees down to the mid twenties in about 2 hours. Had we been in an EV, due to the cold weather I am certain battery life would have been affected. As it was, we made it on one tank of gas, with plenty to spare.

Here is a real-world experience of driving an EV in the cold, around 0 to -2 degrees. He starts with a full charge and depletes it down to 2%. He only got 158 miles out of the battery. Since you are not supposed to charge over 80% and recharge at 20%, that would only leave 60% of battery available. That would have only been 94 miles between charges, using the standard charging parameters. Not very practical for me, plus taking the chance of running out of battery in that cold of weather before finding a working charger.