Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[NoTrespassing]

Uh, what are these carbon credits?

Was not aware one could buy/sell credits for CAFE standards? In the past these have been dealt with by fines from the Federal government.

Are you confusing Clean Air Credits issued by CARB states? The ones Tesla used to make a bundle selling to traditional manufactures allowing them to sell ICE vehicles in CARB states?

I might be confusing something about this but I believe Tesla gets paid by manufacturers for both CARB and CAFE credits. Can you set me straight? From Wiki:

Corporate average fuel economy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If the average fuel economy of a manufacturer's annual fleet of vehicle production falls below the applicable requirement, the manufacturer must either apply sufficient CAFE credits (see below) to cover the shortfall or pay a penalty, currently $14 per 0.1 mpg under the standard, multiplied by the manufacturer's total production for the U.S. domestic market.

Tesla, a firm that makes vehicles like the 142 miles per gallon gasoline equivalent Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus, earned $428 Million in AMFA CAFE Credits paid to it by other manufacturers in Q2 2020, a new record.[90]

Other Automakers Paid Tesla a Record $428 Million Last Quarter

Automakers buy regulatory credits, and a lot of them, from Tesla in order to comply with emissions regulations around the world.

www.caranddriver.com

Similar measures have been put in place in the European Union, where rules mandate average emissions from new vehicles. In order to avoid what could have amounted to over $2.1 billion in fines according to analysts, Fiat Chrysler paid Tesla hundreds of millions of dollars so their vehicles are counted in the same fleet and therefore FCA’s emissions are averaged with those of Tesla.

For years, Tesla has been paid by other automakers for the regulatory credits that they acquire as a result of their all-electric lineup and it was a mystery as to who exactly was purchasing the credits. Last summer, Bloomberg reported that General Motors and FCA had disclosed in a Delaware court that they had agreed to buy greenhouse gas emissions credits from Tesla.

 

[wawajake]

So far 17 states plus Washington DC have adopted the California law that mandates only zero emission vehicles can be sold after 2035.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Adoption of California's Clean Vehicle Standards by State

And that is just counting the USA , the world has many other countries doing it too.... Butbe careful, you can't give Trad or Grumpy facts.....they will freak out , ignore and or claim conspiracy theory .

 

[WM75Guy]

Uh, what are these carbon credits?

Was not aware one could buy/sell credits for CAFE standards? In the past these have been dealt with by fines from the Federal government.

Are you confusing Clean Air Credits issued by CARB states? The ones Tesla used to make a bundle selling to traditional manufactures allowing them to sell ICE vehicles in CARB states?

From Tesla's 2022 Annual Report, which is the latest available. For 2022 Tesla made $1,716,000,000 by selling regulatory credits to other automotive manufacturers. That is a little over 2% of total revenue. And yes, I included the citation, which is Tesla's 10K filing with the SEC.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000095017023001409/tsla-20221231.htm

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

So you are saying half of Tesla buyers are not getting the Tax Credits.

I don't know how you can mathematically determine that from an average.
The average could be $150k and 100% of them got the credit.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Sure I understand. With an EV simply stay close to home!

Stay close to home??, One of my friends drives his EV to the next state on a regular basis to go to work. Charges overnight at his home. Interstate travel, we joke about it!!

It is all about travel distance, planning and watching the weather/temperatures.

He lives one mile from the border! Drives 4 miles to work!

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Are we are witnessing the slow death of EV's or the calm before the storm?

Tesla is cutting prices at the expense of profitability. The "legacy" automakers are back peddling and quickly. A new administration will not be EV Kool-Aid drinkers and gas prices will drop. China is set to flood the market and does not answer to shareholders.

Bottom line...most Americans do not want EV's. They may be stupid or ignorant, but they spend their money as they see fit.

Big problems with the Made in China EV's, they burn up at a faster rate than those made in the US of A!

 

[scootr]

Seems like the wheels are coming off the EV bus. Cold weather has exasperated the range and charging problems that plague the electric vehicle.

 

[WinterDeere]

Tesla Y is still the most popular car in the world.
And I don't believe anyone is mandating only EV's.

Oh really??
Check out the legislation for California coming on ICE vehicles in just 10 years.

The Tesla Y is the most popular car today. How does any legislation not set to go into effect for another 10 years impact sales today? If anything, you'd think it'd have the reverse effect, prompting Californians to buy an ICE while they still can, not pushing them toward a mandate they are supposed to dislike.

 

[WinterDeere]

The average income of a Tesla owner is $150k. Average household income is half of that. These are not for the masses.

Agreed. I'd bet that EV sales overwhelmingly come from areas where average income is above national average, such as the west coast and New England.

 

[Eagle1]

Alternative Fuels Data Center: TransAtlas