Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[Gale Hawkins]

Yes Tesla is still the safest bet in the USA for a working Man. Especially since the Bolt is gone. The Nissan Leaf primed the pump for Tesla in my case. Too bad Nissan did not make a profit on that car. The USA OEMs turned out to be slow learners from Elon Musk. Just proves the point. You can lead the old mule to water but you can't make him drink.

 

[WinterDeere]

Than average car loan in 2023 was $40k for 69 months.

Those wages aren't keeping up.

I can foresee a day when the average person's loan term is longer than they will be keeping the car, so... perpetual car payments. The banks love it! I believe Chrysler Capital makes more off their loan interest, than actually selling cars, probably similar for any brand that self-finances.

While I've always bought my cars with cash, I don't think car loans are the worse thing in the world, for most. The interest rate is relatively low, and when placed against increasing inflation, the cost can be nearly nil. But I'm also never spending more than 3 months combined household income on any car, and really don't understand why folks making $60k per year are driving themselves around in $60k cars, and then having trouble with other household expenses, or having to go into crisis mode when a layoff or pandemic interrupts their paycheck for a few weeks. They'd be much better off buying a nice used car at $15k - $20k, even if that does require a small amount of financing.

 

[DarkBlack]

Maybe but most solar installs are adding batteries at the time of install... California.

Ok…but…
What’s the price to have a solar system with battery storage installed, today?

Buy the expensive PV system with batteries first, then buy the expensive battery car, or the other way around?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

CR Says The New Subaru Forester May Be Worth The Wait, I Say It's The Best Choice

Based off my 2010 103K mile Subaru Forester test vehicle purchase usage in 2017 this 2025 Forester sounds like an interesting ICE option. I was looking at a new one in 2021 until the not so near Subaru dealership blew a test drive/air bag and rear center seat recall when I was over half way from a Tesla show room.

 

[Gator6x4]

WinterDeere we already have, "I can foresee a day when the average person's loan term is longer than they will be keeping the car, so... perpetual car payments."

I have a friend who leases and is in a two-three year turn the old in and get a new one program.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

I mean, a lot of people are already in a never ending car payment cycle. They roll negative equity into a new car, because typically they cannot do so on a used one, and therefore always have debt. I haven’t made a car payment in 20 years… and NO payments at all, for 11. I just have to maintain what I have, which is a freeing feeling.

 

[wawajake]

Yes Tesla is still the safest bet in the USA for a working Man. Especially since the Bolt is gone. The Nissan Leaf primed the pump for Tesla in my case. Too bad Nissan did not make a profit on that car. The USA OEMs turned out to be slow learners from Elon Musk. Just proves the point. You can lead the old mule to water but you can't make him drink.

Or more likely the OEMs won't drink the false C02 or battery koolaid being forced on them . And are counting on smarter politicians getting in power and a more reasonable hybrid world being what will work better because of the many shortcomings of the EV world . ( eg Toyota's approach) . Shortcomings include 1) the rich early adopters customer surge is waning. 2) the middle class one car family cannot function fully with range andcharging access and cost problems. 3) true reflection of impact of third world sources for battery metals is being revealed. 4) shortages of materials needed for charging infrastructure is imminent world wide. ( and true costs to achieve) 5) customers hate being forced to buy a product. .......all this is more likely why the OEMs are not giving 100% initiative into EVs.......whereas Tesla has all their eggs in one basket and need the EV ball to keep rolling and will do anything and say anything to push their agenda.

 

[Gator6x4]

I think if Toyota's 800 mile battery comes on line in 26-27 like they are promising they are going to sell a lot of vehicles at a premium price. Waiting for the NEW TOYOTA battery with the projected 800 mile range is what stopped the sale of EV's. People are saying why buy something today that only gets 250 miles per charge when in a couple of years I can get a car that will go 800 miles on a charge.

Tesla who had stopped free battery charging in 2018 are back with free charging on Tesla Models S, X and Y. They are providing free Supercharger network access for life to purchasers of new Model S, Model X and Model Y vehicles.

https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharger-transfer#:~:text=Supercharging%20Transfers-,Current%20Tesla%20owners%20with%20active%20free%20Supercharging%20are%20eligible%20to,Y%20by%20March%2031%2C%202024.

 

[shooterdon]

EVs are in our future. They are in their infancy in terms of development and will continue to improve. ICE has been around for over 100 years...not much left to tweak out of them.

Gale is right, Tesla is the only EV to consider if you want to spend over $40k. Nothing else makes sense currently unless you have money to burn and want to impress.

IMO there is a market for a small "commuter car" and that is what the Asians are building. Think about the success of Civics, Corollas etc introduced over 50 years ago into the NA market and still going strong.

I will never buy a Tesla at over $40k because it does not meet my needs. Even it if did, I cannot get it serviced where I live. That does not make me an EV hater...just a realist.

I am on the fence with hybrids. Are they best or worst of both technologies? Most get 40-50 miles on a charge, and for most daily needs that is enough. You can run the ICE and not worry about range anxiety. But you still have a battery that can degrade and needs to be replaced at some point. And you still have an ICE to service. It seems to me the complexity of integrating EV and ICE is higher, so more things that can go wrong.

 

[Grumpycat]

Or more likely the OEMs won't drink the false C02 or battery koolaid being forced on them . And are counting on smarter politicians getting in power and a more reasonable hybrid world being what will work better because of the many shortcomings of the EV world . ( eg Toyota's approach) . Shortcomings include 1) the rich early adopters customer surge is waning. 2) the middle class one car family cannot function fully with range andcharging access and cost problems. 3) true reflection of impact of third world sources for battery metals is being revealed. 4) shortages of materials needed for charging infrastructure is imminent world wide. ( and true costs to achieve) 5) customers hate being forced to buy a product. .......all this is more likely why the OEMs are not giving 100% initiative into EVs.......whereas Tesla has all their eggs in one basket and need the EV ball to keep rolling and will do anything and say anything to push their agenda.

You have the the EV Hate Dogma down pat!

You oppose EV mandates (as I do) but then exercise your enlightenment supporting the same sort of mandate for hybrids. "Toyota has found the solution!" You novice newcomer! Your ilk hated on Toyota for the silly Prius, before the Prius was cool. To date no one has done a better hybrid than Toyota. But, a hybrid has all the complexity of an ICE with all the complexity of an EV. Plus added complexity merging the two. Only has a smaller battery than an EV.

Third worlds are enslaved by China because the formerly free world's Globalists have gifted exclusive markets, and allow China to rape and pillage to their delight. There is no real shortage of "rare earths", the USA has plenty of reserves but forbidden access by government. The only reason production of such materials is dirty is that China gets to do whatever they want.

Oppose EV mandates but then imply government is responsible for providing "charging infrastructure." Is not the government's place to provide gas stations for ICE nor EV.