Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[Grumpycat]

That's IF you can find a charging station that actually works. On my patch, half the ones I pass are broken or otherwise out of service.

What’s behind the epidemic of unreliable EV chargers?

The short answer is data. Hundreds of things can go wrong in the EV charging process, but the data to figure out why is unavailable. New government rules aim to solve that.

www.canarymedia.com

The problem where I live seems to be the lack of trained service technicians.

There are two worlds in the EV Fast Charging Area. Tesla and Everyone Else. The non-government infrastructure vs the crumbling government subsidized infrastructure.

Your article is based on data from "78 percent of the non-Tesla stations in the country (Canada)..." The article had to separate Tesla from the others else it would have been forced to point out that it could have been done right in the first place without additional government intervention.

Tesla Superchargers are rock solid reliable. And plentiful.

 

[DarkBlack]

I drive a pickup, and don't own an EV. But even I will recognize a BEV is probably a better choice for the majority of Americans. 99% of the pickups I see on the road every day are never used for hauling more than groceries, or a few kids to soccer practice.

Popularity has always been a poor measure of suitability. Heck, the Spice Girls were more popular than King Crimson, and Taylor Swift has sold more albums than all of your favorite musicians. Does that make them "the best choice"?

Definitely. I will never be without a truck, myself. But the argument was about "most Americans", and I suspect most who drive a pickup to work everyday only very rarely use it for the hauling capacity.

Wait a minute here. I said pickup trucks are still the leading sales vehicle type. I didn’t say it’s bought by most Americans. I said battery vehicle proponents here, and elsewhere claim BEV’s are the best choice for the majority.
2nd:
I don’t disagree a lot of people don’t frequently use the full capacity of a pickup truck.. but your argument is a false one. You’re making the argument that people could get away with smaller more efficient vehicles in the post to me and the next poster, but you’ve presented with a battery car being the only alternative. You shouldn’t buy beer to drink when you could be buying milk I’m selling.

The majority of small inexpensive economical cars as an alternative to pickups, are ICE cars.

 

[Grumpycat]

“The average time at a Tesla charging station depends on various factors, such as the type of charger, battery capacity and charging level . At a Tesla Supercharger station, a full charge can take between 15 minutes to an hour and a half ³. However, it's recommended to charge to 80% (which takes around 30 minutes) to avoid prolonged charging times and preserve battery health ¹. Level 2 charging can take 8-12 hours, while Level 1 charging is much slower at 20-40 hours “

80% does not take 30 minutes in recent Tesla models. My 10 year old 2013 Model S would have taken 90 minutes to get 90%. And it depends on how much one had when the charging started. And besides, one doesn't charge to 80% or anything like that on a road trip, one only charges sufficient to make the next stop. Stand by my original statement that one is off in 20 minutes or less.

A Model 3 or Y Long Range will take 250 miles in 35 minutes.

You say "full charge" which demonstrates you don't really know anything about how EVs are operated. If a Tesla Supercharger site is 75% occupied then all are limited to 80%. Charging slows as the battery fills and beyond 80% things get slower and slower. Charging beyond 80% is simply being greedy and possibly depriving others of a charging bay.

If the next Supercharger is 150 miles away then the fastest way to get to that Supercharger is to only add enough to the battery to get there. Because the fuller the battery the slower it charges so you would just be sitting there slowly adding charge you don't need. These are things The Gas Station Model does not teach.

 

[Grumpycat]

Which is why I own a Tesla. No worries about traveling beyond the range.
Although in reality the majority of my charging is at home.
The Bucees on our route to Ft Worth just installed J1772 chargers so charging our GM bolt is no an issue except for longer charging times.

Buc-ees Leeds Alabama is at the 2nd traffic light from Barber Vintage Motorsports Museum, my primary reason to go to Birmingham. Has (16) 250 kW Tesla Supercharger bays. I can get there and back on one charge but with Buc-ees midway there is no point in starting with a 100% charge.

 

[WinterDeere]

We did that stuff as well, but the truck sure was nice when I came home and had to haul to 2-3 weeks worth of household garbage to the transfer station, or take something to the vet.

Oh, I definitely agree with you. Same reasons I have a truck on hand. But you have to admit the majority of Americans have trash pickup service, they aren't hauling their own refuse to the transfer station, so that's probably not the best example of why the majority of Americans would want or need a pickup.

I need to pull a 7000 lb. trailer with regular frequency, so I keep a truck for that. Everything else, such as the concrete and flagstone I hauled in the bed yesterday, is just a convenience. I can't do the 7k trailer economically today with a BEV, but I could have very easily thrown the concrete and flagstone onto a small utility trailer behind a BEV, this being more typical of the stuff the "average American" might use their pickup for on any given Saturday.

Wait a minute here. I said pickup trucks are still the leading sales vehicle type. I didn’t say it’s bought by most Americans.

Fair enough. But then there's this:

I said battery vehicle proponents here, and elsewhere claim BEV’s are the best choice for the majority.

So, I guess I tied the two issues together. Sorry if I took you a little out of context, but I think it was a fair leap to make.

I don’t disagree a lot of people don’t frequently use the full capacity of a pickup truck.. but your argument is a false one. You’re making the argument that people could get away with smaller more efficient vehicles in the post to me and the next poster, but you’ve presented with a battery car being the only alternative.

I'm rarely interested in picking nits, but if you really want to go down this path, let's be sure you've got an accurate record of the conversation. I didn't say they're the only alternative, I was only responding to your comment about them being the best alternative. But I suspect we're in agreement that both statements are reaching too far, which is why I chose "probably a better choice" as my exact wording, in that prior response.

The majority of small inexpensive economical cars as an alternative to pickups, are ICE cars.

Good point, and for many, they'd be an even better choice.

 

[Grumpycat]

Actually the " ignore function" seems to be a common problem with some of the EV worshippers here. They ignore : 1) the short comings of EVs like exaggerated range, cold weather inconsistency.

Not at all. You pretend the behavior of an ICE in cold weather is perfect because what the ICE does is normal to you. When one tries to operate an EV exactly the same way as one operated a gasoline ICE then problems appear. Just as if one tried to operate a diesel ICE exactly the same as gasoline.

2) ignore that the main driver of EV is the false premise of C02.

Nope, not at all. Certain forces have selected "Climate Change" as their call for creating a totalitarian one world government under their control because clearly market forces are insufficient to force the changes they deem necessary. That only centralized economic control can "save the world." CO2 has been chosen as their boogyman to scare the children.

3) they ignore that EVs need to work for long distance drives so " gas station model" charging is a necessity .

Continue to refuse to understand The Gas Station Model because once you understand then your fantasy world will be turned upside down. The Gas Station Model says EVs need to depend on public charging at every street corner where gas stations currently exist. Not home charging. That EVs need to charge in 5 minutes or less, else be impractical.

Tesla is very smart in their Supercharger rollout. Placed on major transportation corridors. Spaced for one to get from one to the next. Made long distance travel possible. Even comfortable.

I estimate my sister has made a 430 mile day to our parents over 30 times in her Teslas. Usually makes 2 quick stops.

4) they ignore the middle class apartment or townhouse dwellers.

The very same who can't keep horses or tractors at their apartments?

How are EV drivers ignoring apartment dwellers? Around here most have swimming pools and tennis courts. Those of us with private homes do without those things.

Just as apartment/condominium dwellers got washer and dryers, swimming pools, air conditioning, etc, over the decades when they want EV charging bad enough to move to where they can get it then they will get it.

5) they ignore the labor and enviro nightmare mining third world resources for battery metals.

Globalist leaders gifted those markets to the 3rd world, then China moved in and enslaved the market. The problem is our enlightened leaders will not let the USA use domestic reserves to meet our needs. And too wussy to stand up to China.

6) they ignore the Government mandates pushing the product worldwide.........and Trad ignores the calls for him to stop the name calling and petty childish behavior he exhibits constantly.

Government is going to government so long as we let government grow.

EV mandates will never come to be in reality. When the time comes to be enforced those in power won't have the willpower. And if they try they'll be thrown out. Sure, will happen in a few enclaves such as the catastrophe known as California but almost nowhere else.

We've already seen B back off his EV quotas.

 

[shooterdon]

Who wants to be "average"?

I have the right to be as wasteful as I wish as long as I do not harm anyone. I might use the bed of our F150 once or twice a month. That is wasteful...my name is Chuck and I don't give a ****. Sure beats hooking up a trailer, trying to back it up and then unhooking it and storing it. My money...My choice.

I like having a good view of the road with the added height a pickup gives, and I feel safer should I get in an accident. That is wasteful too. Again old Chuckie doesn't care.

 

[wawajake]

80% does not take 30 minutes in recent Tesla models. My 10 year old 2013 Model S would have taken 90 minutes to get 90%. And it depends on how much one had when the charging started. And besides, one doesn't charge to 80% or anything like that on a road trip, one only charges sufficient to make the next stop. Stand by my original statement that one is off in 20 minutes or less.

A Model 3 or Y Long Range will take 250 miles in 35 minutes.

You say "full charge" which demonstrates you don't really know anything about how EVs are operated. If a Tesla Supercharger site is 75% occupied then all are limited to 80%. Charging slows as the battery fills and beyond 80% things get slower and slower. Charging beyond 80% is simply being greedy and possibly depriving others of a charging bay.

If the next Supercharger is 150 miles away then the fastest way to get to that Supercharger is to only add enough to the battery to get there. Because the fuller the battery the slower it charges so you would just be sitting there slowly adding charge you don't need. These are things The Gas Station Model does not teach.

You are totally missing the point.....your Tesla long distance run model you deem we are ignorant of, because we apply a " gas station model"......except you are describing going from one " gas (energy) station to another, charging for 20 or 30 minutes a pop....eg if directed to charger 150 miles away , only charge enough to get there you say......quite frankly that is a ridiculous way to get long distance where time is the pressing factor. Because in an ICE we would go 5 or 600 miles before fueling for 5 or 10 minutes.....your model is perhaps 3 or 4 stops at 20 or more minutes.
.( and diversion off highway to correct charger) You just added 60 to 120 minutes to a daily long distance drive......ouch !!! ....and relied on a gas(energy) station model more times than the ICE.....hmmmm

 

[Gale Hawkins]

You are totally missing the point.....your Tesla long distance run model you deem we are ignorant of, because we apply a " gas station model"......except you are describing going from one " gas (energy) station to another, charging for 20 or 30 minutes a pop....eg if directed to charger 150 miles away , only charge enough to get there you say......quite frankly that is a ridiculous way to get long distance where time is the pressing factor. Because in an ICE we would go 5 or 600 miles before fueling for 5 or 10 minutes.....your model is perhaps 3 or 4 stops at 20 or more minutes.
.( and diversion off highway to correct charger) You just added 60 to 120 minutes to a daily long distance drive......ouch !!! ....and relied on a gas(energy) station model more times than the ICE.....hmmmm

I do wish you could come up with an EV so you didn't have to depend on others to do 100% of your EV thinking for you.

 

[wawajake]

I do wish you could come up with an EV so you didn't have to depend on others to do 100% of your EV thinking for you.

yes especcially when the others that do the "100% of that EV thinking" , paint themselves into corners or contradict their own EV words....hmmm