imported_OWDouglas
Silver Member
your losing power due to the resistance in the extention cord, had the same distance run to a garage with same voltage problems,try running a 10/2 underground to your barn it may do the trick(it worked for me)
Battery Charger and electrical line loss question.
- Thread starter Moon
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OP
Moon
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( In my opinion, there is a little to much focus on the extension cord.
I am not to familiar with batteries that are put in tractors these days, )</font>
Thanks for all replies. Here is a little more info. The battery which had the key left on was my new ZTR. When neither my regular battery charger nor my Battery Tender could bring it back to life I took it to a local auto parts store. They checked it and it appeared dead, so they tried to charge it. It charged right up. (note, i had 50 hours on the new ZTR when my boy tried to help out and winterize it by putting additive in the gas. He had trouble starting it, and left the key on. Now i have 127 hours on the tractor. Dang it!!!).
The batteries I had trouble with last spring were not tractor batteries. They were both in my boat. Last winter when I first purchased the battery tender plus product I alternated 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off the two deep cycle boat batteries. This year i intend to get the optional multi hook up, if we figure here that line loss should not be a problem for running a battery tender plus.
From the sounds of the replies, it is questionable whether or not the regular batter charger should have worked hooked up with 200' of 18 gauge extension cord, but the smaller Battery Tender Plus unit probably should work okay. I will get the amps reading from both units later tonight.
Thanks,
Moon of Ohio
I am not to familiar with batteries that are put in tractors these days, )</font>
Thanks for all replies. Here is a little more info. The battery which had the key left on was my new ZTR. When neither my regular battery charger nor my Battery Tender could bring it back to life I took it to a local auto parts store. They checked it and it appeared dead, so they tried to charge it. It charged right up. (note, i had 50 hours on the new ZTR when my boy tried to help out and winterize it by putting additive in the gas. He had trouble starting it, and left the key on. Now i have 127 hours on the tractor. Dang it!!!).
The batteries I had trouble with last spring were not tractor batteries. They were both in my boat. Last winter when I first purchased the battery tender plus product I alternated 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off the two deep cycle boat batteries. This year i intend to get the optional multi hook up, if we figure here that line loss should not be a problem for running a battery tender plus.
From the sounds of the replies, it is questionable whether or not the regular batter charger should have worked hooked up with 200' of 18 gauge extension cord, but the smaller Battery Tender Plus unit probably should work okay. I will get the amps reading from both units later tonight.
Thanks,
Moon of Ohio
OP
Moon
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2002
- Messages
- 908
- Location
- SE Ohio, Meigs County
- Tractor
- Kubota L3010HST R4's, Scag Wildcat ZTR, 61
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( your losing power due to the resistance in the extention cord, had the same distance run to a garage with same voltage problems,try running a 10/2 underground to your barn it may do the trick(it worked for me)
)</font>
This is in my plans. I actually need to run enough line that I can run a few 110 circuts and one 220 one. Do you know what I would need underground to run that?
Another question .... my power pole is right inbetween my pole barn and my house. Would it be better to run a completely seperate service to the pole barn. This would mean an seperate bill from the power company, but I wonder if there are any other drawbacks to this option?
I have 200 amps at the house. This would mean I would not be taking away from the house service and I would only have to bury 100' of wire to get to the pole building. Seems like a win win to me. What am i missing?
Thanks again,
Moon of Ohio
)</font>
This is in my plans. I actually need to run enough line that I can run a few 110 circuts and one 220 one. Do you know what I would need underground to run that?
Another question .... my power pole is right inbetween my pole barn and my house. Would it be better to run a completely seperate service to the pole barn. This would mean an seperate bill from the power company, but I wonder if there are any other drawbacks to this option?
I have 200 amps at the house. This would mean I would not be taking away from the house service and I would only have to bury 100' of wire to get to the pole building. Seems like a win win to me. What am i missing?
Thanks again,
Moon of Ohio
Inspector507
Super Member
Moon,
Check with your electric supplier. You might be charged a higher rate for power to the barn.
As far as what to run underground, I'd need to know what you plan to use on those new circuits before anyone could give you any advice.
Check with your electric supplier. You might be charged a higher rate for power to the barn.
As far as what to run underground, I'd need to know what you plan to use on those new circuits before anyone could give you any advice.
Junkman
Super Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ............ When neither my regular battery charger nor my Battery Tender could bring it back to life I took it to a local auto parts store. They checked it and it appeared dead, so they tried to charge it. It charged right up. ...........Thanks,
Moon of Ohio )</font>
When charging a dead battery, it is best to bring it to room temperature first. Trying to charge a dead, cold or even frozen battery can lead to disastrous events. Whenever a battery goes completely dead, the electrolyte in the battery, separates the water portion of the electrolyte from the acid part of the electrolyte and the water portion can and will freeze. I have seen totally discharged batteries both freeze and crack. It is totally temperature dependent. Always bring the battery inside and wait 24 hours to assure complete thawing and then put a trickle charger on the battery for a few hours. Make sure to correctly hook up the Positive and Negative, because in the totally discharged state, it is possible to reverse the polarity of the battery. A cold discharged battery that you are trying to jump or charge, is like handling a stick of dynamite. If you don't handle it properly it can and will explode. In my EMS days, I had seen it happen all too often.
Moon of Ohio )</font>
When charging a dead battery, it is best to bring it to room temperature first. Trying to charge a dead, cold or even frozen battery can lead to disastrous events. Whenever a battery goes completely dead, the electrolyte in the battery, separates the water portion of the electrolyte from the acid part of the electrolyte and the water portion can and will freeze. I have seen totally discharged batteries both freeze and crack. It is totally temperature dependent. Always bring the battery inside and wait 24 hours to assure complete thawing and then put a trickle charger on the battery for a few hours. Make sure to correctly hook up the Positive and Negative, because in the totally discharged state, it is possible to reverse the polarity of the battery. A cold discharged battery that you are trying to jump or charge, is like handling a stick of dynamite. If you don't handle it properly it can and will explode. In my EMS days, I had seen it happen all too often.
SPIKER
Elite Member
I agree with inspector 100% on this.
voltage drop over the lenght of the cord was probably NOT the real problem when runningthe trickel charger at all. booster maybe...
anyhow depending on the power supplier, they MAY give you NEW drop and run the wire for you! I could have goten mine doen for FREE (elec coop) supplies wire digs and back fills the hole sebang up to the meter pan (on the barn outside wall...)
anyhow I did my own install from my existing meter base to the barnusing the 200 amp circuit breaker disconnect as a junction box I made my own up from Stainless Steel which looks nice (the old orriginal 200 amp service to the house was rotted away and was home to about 5000 hornets which wanted to argue with me about me removing & replacing their home!) " I think the NEW bees are a lot less agressive than they USED to be!?" as a kid I got stung all the time by wasps and would not even be near the nest! they would chase ya down, now adays they are very tame and fearfull and fly away instead of attacking like I remember! ?? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif anyhow what would you LIKE to have and what do you NEED to have out there running electrically? remember it is easy to do it ONCE and to do it over it will cost 3 times as much... 9yes 3 tiems as first install then all the agrivation of not havin ght epower to do what you want then the $ to dig up & replace & rewire the barn!) I say do it once and do it right! call the pwoer company and see what they offer in ways of adding a service to the barn, they MAY add a NEW meter and base to handle BOTH services if the transformer up on top of pole has the power available... they may also be requierd top much of the line work depending on WHERE you want the meter. they are responceable for all the wire from the pole to the meter you are responceable for the rest form meter/disconnect to the last box on the wall... 9also get a good commercial electrician to wire it it will save you money in the long run as well as hassels with codes permits ect... the power company will also inspect the work prior to hooking up the meter in many areas as they want to make sure EVERYTHING is right before giving you the service.,..
anyhow keep us informed and listen to inspector57 he seems to know what he's talking about /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Mark M
voltage drop over the lenght of the cord was probably NOT the real problem when runningthe trickel charger at all. booster maybe...
anyhow depending on the power supplier, they MAY give you NEW drop and run the wire for you! I could have goten mine doen for FREE (elec coop) supplies wire digs and back fills the hole sebang up to the meter pan (on the barn outside wall...)
anyhow I did my own install from my existing meter base to the barnusing the 200 amp circuit breaker disconnect as a junction box I made my own up from Stainless Steel which looks nice (the old orriginal 200 amp service to the house was rotted away and was home to about 5000 hornets which wanted to argue with me about me removing & replacing their home!) " I think the NEW bees are a lot less agressive than they USED to be!?" as a kid I got stung all the time by wasps and would not even be near the nest! they would chase ya down, now adays they are very tame and fearfull and fly away instead of attacking like I remember! ?? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif anyhow what would you LIKE to have and what do you NEED to have out there running electrically? remember it is easy to do it ONCE and to do it over it will cost 3 times as much... 9yes 3 tiems as first install then all the agrivation of not havin ght epower to do what you want then the $ to dig up & replace & rewire the barn!) I say do it once and do it right! call the pwoer company and see what they offer in ways of adding a service to the barn, they MAY add a NEW meter and base to handle BOTH services if the transformer up on top of pole has the power available... they may also be requierd top much of the line work depending on WHERE you want the meter. they are responceable for all the wire from the pole to the meter you are responceable for the rest form meter/disconnect to the last box on the wall... 9also get a good commercial electrician to wire it it will save you money in the long run as well as hassels with codes permits ect... the power company will also inspect the work prior to hooking up the meter in many areas as they want to make sure EVERYTHING is right before giving you the service.,..
anyhow keep us informed and listen to inspector57 he seems to know what he's talking about /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Mark M
OP
Moon
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2002
- Messages
- 908
- Location
- SE Ohio, Meigs County
- Tractor
- Kubota L3010HST R4's, Scag Wildcat ZTR, 61
Thanks Guys. Good info Junkman.
I talked to my local power company today. They will run the line from the pole to my building! Not free, but not much is these days. They've scheduled a field engineer to stop out here to price and plan the job.
Now, how much power do i need? The building is 24' x 70'. I store boats in the rear and my tractor stuff up front, closer to the door. All 3 boats would need power for charging batteries. I'd like to be able to run a welder (probably 220 ...i don't have one yet). My compressor is 110. What else do you need 220 power for in a building? I do not plan to heat it. I have free gas, but it's only good for one dwelling & I'm sure not paying to heat it; its not insulated at all.
Thanks again,
Moon of Ohio
I talked to my local power company today. They will run the line from the pole to my building! Not free, but not much is these days. They've scheduled a field engineer to stop out here to price and plan the job.
Now, how much power do i need? The building is 24' x 70'. I store boats in the rear and my tractor stuff up front, closer to the door. All 3 boats would need power for charging batteries. I'd like to be able to run a welder (probably 220 ...i don't have one yet). My compressor is 110. What else do you need 220 power for in a building? I do not plan to heat it. I have free gas, but it's only good for one dwelling & I'm sure not paying to heat it; its not insulated at all.
Thanks again,
Moon of Ohio
Junkman
Super Member
If your electric company charges for each meter, then explore the possibility of having a 200 amp meter installed at the base of the pole with a main panel below it. Then come off that main panel with power to the house and the barn. It might be a little more expensive in the beginning, but the real cost savings will be in only having one meter fee vs. two for the rest of the time you live there. If it $8.00 per month, that equals $96. per year..... assuming that it doesn't go up in the next ten years, that extra meter will cost you $960 for those ten years. If you are old like me, then you will say..... "Let the next owner worry about it!".....
sendero
Gold Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Maintainers usually use 300 - 500 mA to maintain the voltage level, and this is often not constant. Any more may boil the acid out of the battery. So let use 13.7 VDC for the maintain voltage. If we want the AC line amp, we need to convert to watts. So 13.7V X .5A = 6.85 VA or watts. Now lets take 6.85 watts and convert to amps at 120 VAC. That would be 6.85VA / 120 V = .57 Amps.
If you plug .57 Amps into you voltage drop calculator I think you find that you can run a pretty small extension cord.
)</font>
I hate to pick nits but (6.85VA / 120 V) would be 0.057 amps. It wouldn't make any sense for a half an amp at 12V to be the same amperage at 120V /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Maintainers usually use 300 - 500 mA to maintain the voltage level, and this is often not constant. Any more may boil the acid out of the battery. So let use 13.7 VDC for the maintain voltage. If we want the AC line amp, we need to convert to watts. So 13.7V X .5A = 6.85 VA or watts. Now lets take 6.85 watts and convert to amps at 120 VAC. That would be 6.85VA / 120 V = .57 Amps.
If you plug .57 Amps into you voltage drop calculator I think you find that you can run a pretty small extension cord.
)</font>
I hate to pick nits but (6.85VA / 120 V) would be 0.057 amps. It wouldn't make any sense for a half an amp at 12V to be the same amperage at 120V /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
WhiteRock
Silver Member
You are correct. My apologies to the forum. I tried to check my work so I would confuse everyone, and I did anyway.
Thanks Sendero
Thanks Sendero
