Battery Longevity

[jaxs]

I have a nearby Kioti dealer, John Deere dealer, Kubota dealer and O'Reilly Auto Parts. Do any of those have better batteries (reliability & warranty) than the others?

This is a question I've never heard the TBN brain trust weigh in on so I'll take the floor on this one.:detective: O'Reilly probably has the best warranty out of that bunch. Here's how many places rook customers on warranty. Few dealers if any sell batteries at msrp. Places like Oreily's and Wal-Mart sell for retail prices they set for themselves plus routinly run sales at reduced prices. Batteries of equal cold cranking amps might carry a msrp of $150 and sell for $100 at a dealer,have a retail price of $90 and sale price of $75 at Wally World. Joe buy's the battery for $100 from the dealer,Bill pay's $90 at Wally World and Ray come's to Wally World next day and pay's $75 on sale. All three batteries carry 3 year warranty and go bad one year from purchase. Dealer figure's Joe's warranty thus, $150 msrp minus 33% warranty leave's Joe oweing $100 for the replacement. Bill and Ray will owe $60 if battery isn't on sale,$50 if it is on sale. Before buying a battery,read intire warrant carfully. Class is dismissed.

 

[stevem5215]

No one has mentioned the obvious. Test the battery capacity regularly. It's easy to do and fast with a tester like this one.

Amazon.com: Digital 12V Car Battery Tester Pro with AH/CCA Mode Automotive Battery Load Tester and Analyzer of Battery Life Percentage,Voltage, Resistance and CCA Value for Car, Motorcycle, Boat, Vehicle etc: Automotive

This will allow you to test the rated battery CCA/AH compared to what it actually has for capacity at test time. So like in the case of my 9 year old Steiner tractor (automotive size battery) it still has aprox 75% of rated capacity still. That testing allows me to monitor if it needs some help with the charger desulfination system that CTEK offers. I usually do the batteries once a year with it. Believe it. It makes a difference in battery life. 9 years old is nothing to sneeze at. And unless I get a sudden death cell it looks to last a while longer yet. Test and charge (but do not over charge) fill with water if needed (usually 2x a year i check and add). Try it and tell me you aren't a believer in the idea that batteries can last longer.

Steve - Electronics guy since 1977

 

[MF RED in MT]

I bought my Kioti RX7320PC in 2015 and have 216 hours on it. It's been stored in my barn and in the winters I often have a trickle charger on it. Occasionally, regardless of the season, the battery isn't strong enough to start the tractor, like yesterday. I just have to put my 30A - 60A charger on for several minutes and "she" starts right up.

Could the battery be old enough to replace?

Could something in the electrical system be draining the battery charge?

Is you trickle charger always hooked to your battery?

I have found in the past the trickle chargers I purchased will drain my batteries slowly when left connected to the battery and not plugged in.

KC

 

[fried1765]

Is you trickle charger always hooked to your battery?

I have found in the past the trickle chargers I purchased will drain my batteries slowly when left connected to the battery and not plugged in.

KC

Same experience here.
I always make certain that they are plugged in.

 

[Texasmark]

So, a higher voltage is being pumped into a 12 volt battery? Does this not damage the battery in some way?

As the battery fills with energy, the "load" on the charger is decreased. Non-electronic chargers, responding to Ohm's law, have less voltage drop in the circuit resistances because of the lower current. As the battery tops off, the "unloaded" voltage output of the charger is where the battery terminal voltage rides. As the battery recovers from (stabilizes after) the charge (24 hrs is the standard) this voltage will drop down to the regular cell voltage of the battery. 14.5V max is pretty much the standard max output of a "controlled/regulated charger and once the clips are removed from the battery (after charger is turned off prior to removal) the voltage would read around 13.5 and after 24 hrs, on a good, fully charged battery (at STP...standard temp of about 75* and sea level) about 12.7-8. This is of my limited experience!

 

[CJHL]

On all of my bikes, I use a battery tender. I regularly get 5 or so years out of them. Now if I hadn't experienced this first hand myself, I wouldn't believe it to be true. Last February, 2020, I just had to replace the original battery on my 5103 Deere and it is a 2005. We bought the tractor new, so I know for a fact that it was the original. Pretty much 15 years out of it is OK in my book. I never once had a tender hooked to that machine in its entire life. One thing I do know from experience with the smaller batteries is that the way they are brought to life the first time does make a difference in longevity. I always try to buy the brand YUASA for my powersports stuff. They come with the acid not in the battery. I always let it sit for the recommended time before the first charge. It seems like the longer they sit to let the acid absorb into the plates, the better. This doesn't really matter much to tractor batteries, but more of just sharing my experience with things I have seen. Honestly, with any of the larger batteries, I would think mostly any name brand one should give you years of reliable service. I seriously doubt though that I will get 15 years out of the replacement battery in my 5103 though.

 

[LD1]

I have 3 things that use a u1 battery (lawn and garden batteries). Seems Im replacing those all the time. At least one per year on something.

But I see alot of people saying 2-5 years or so on full sized batteries. Maybe its luck.....but I dont seem to have to replace that often.

I usually buy napa 75-month batteries. And 9/10 times I am well out of warranty when one needs replaced.

I have found that setting is death on them. Lots of good advice about using maintainers. But on the vehicles I drive daily....8-10 years is not uncommon at all for battery life.

My old L3400 was bought brand new in Feb of 2006. I sold it to dad ~4 years ago when I upgraded to the MX. (knock on wood) it still has the original battery in it. SO over 14 years now

 

[Grumpycat]

I totally agree on how a lead-acid battery is "broken in" makes all the world of difference in longevity. Once Upon A Time Yuasa has a white paper on proper initialization of a new battery. Have not looked for it lately. In summary they ask to let the acid soak the plates an hour or so then use a relatively low current charger/maintainer for 6 hour minimum before slamming it with high currents from vehicle starter and alternator.

Shelf life is much greater for inactivated dry wet-cell batteries. 45 years ago Japanese motorcycles were shipped to the dealer with dry batteries. The dealer had to purchase bulk battery electrolyte separately.

Car batteries seem to come wet from distributors.

Some motorsport AGM come activated, some not.

 

[ultrarunner]

When working at the antique auto shop all 6 and 8 volt batteries required adding bulk acid...

Maybe it was too much of a hazard for general public as time went on?

 

[JethroB]

I still have the Buck pocket knife scarred by opening a bottle of motorcycle battery acid. Ticked me off. 1978.

 

[Cougsfan]

Another thing to consider; Get an multi meter and set it to amps, disconnect your positive lead, Place the amp meter leads between the positive post and cable end and see if you have a current leak with everything shut off. (actually, either positive or negative lead will work). If you register current flow, track it down.

You can start a real mud slinging debate by asking which brand of battery is best. All of it usually based on personal bias rather than facts. I would buy whatever tickles your fancy. The amount of Cold Cranking Amps generally determines the cost. As stated, most any parts house can check the status of your old battery, but I have seen cases where they give you an incorrect diagnosis. So don't let the 18 year old newbie behind the parts counter check your battery

Trickle chargers do vary immensely in quality. Cheap ones can overcharge your battery. You could leave a good one hooked up all winter probably without a problem, however I too just hook them up occasionally for an overnight refresher charge.

 

[Grumpycat]

Another thing to consider; Get an multi meter and set it to amps, disconnect your positive lead, Place the amp meter leads between the positive post and cable end and see if you have a current leak with everything shut off. (actually, either positive or negative lead will work). If you register current flow, track it down.

In general that is a good idea. However my (former) 2001 GMC Sonoma would draw relatively high current for 5-10 minutes after the battery was reconnected. 2-4 amps for first couple of minutes. Things like dome light would initially draw.

 

[lman]

Another thing to consider; Get an multi meter and set it to amps, disconnect your positive lead, Place the amp meter leads between the positive post and cable end and see if you have a current leak with everything shut off. (actually, either positive or negative lead will work). If you register current flow, track it down.

You can start a real mud slinging debate by asking which brand of battery is best. All of it usually based on personal bias rather than facts. I would buy whatever tickles your fancy. The amount of Cold Cranking Amps generally determines the cost. As stated, most any parts house can check the status of your old battery, but I have seen cases where they give you an incorrect diagnosis. So don't let the 18 year old newbie behind the parts counter check your battery

Trickle chargers do vary immensely in quality. Cheap ones can overcharge your battery. You could leave a good one hooked up all winter probably without a problem, however I too just hook them up occasionally for an overnight refresher charge.

I don't and wouldn't use a trickle charger unless you want to fry your battery. I use and would only recommend using a battery maintainer/smart charger.

 

[fried1765]

I don't and wouldn't use a trickle charger unless you want to fry your battery. I use and would only recommend using a battery maintainer/smart charger.

Again......it seems a though the terms: "trickle charger", "battery maintainer" ( a brand name), "smart charger", are often used interchangeably, though not correctly.

 

[John0829]

You can start a real mud slinging debate by asking which brand of battery is best. All of it usually based on personal bias rather than facts.

Especially when if you were to check there are very few actual manufacturers of batteries, it is just a matter of whose name gets stuck on at the end as they go out the door.

 

[LD1]

Especially when if you were to check there are very few actual manufacturers of batteries, it is just a matter of whose name gets stuck on at the end as they go out the door.

Yea, really only like 3 manufacturs that do 99.99% of auto batteries in this country.

East Penn, Johnson controls, and exide.

And they all make batteries under different names for the various aftermarket auto parts stores. And who makes what is also a regional thing. Napa batteries might be made by one manufacture on the east coast, and a different manufacture on the west coast. Just depends on factory locations and price points. Same thing for duralast, acdelco, diehard, etc etc etc.

For me, more important than brand on the battery is the warranty. Because warranty length (and also CA/CCA for a given group size) is usually a pretty good indication on how heavy the internal plates are and overall how it is constructed. Higher CCA for a given size and longer warranty usually means a much better quality battery

 

[cqaigy2]

Yea, really only like 3 manufacturs that do 99.99% of auto batteries in this country.

East Penn, Johnson controls, and exide.

And they all make batteries under different names for the various aftermarket auto parts stores. And who makes what is also a regional thing. Napa batteries might be made by one manufacture on the east coast, and a different manufacture on the west coast. Just depends on factory locations and price points. Same thing for duralast, acdelco, diehard, etc etc etc.

For me, more important than brand on the battery is the warranty. Because warranty length (and also CA/CCA for a given group size) is usually a pretty good indication on how heavy the internal plates are and overall how it is constructed. Higher CCA for a given size and longer warranty usually means a much better quality battery

That's what i look at too. Personal observation has been higher CCA with longer warranty will cost more. I usually buy based on minimum needed CCA, warranty for price unit. If i can get either higher CCA and/or longer warranty, that will be what i buy. I use a battery maintainer/smart charger.

My understanding of a trickle charger is a low amp charger with minimal circuitry that only keeps voltage high enough to maintain the low amp flow. They were basically what was available for cheap, back in the good ole days. They were supposed to be used intermittently, so they didn't damage your battery.

 

[user.69169]

I tell you fortrue every battery in a plastic case is made to self destruct way quicker den needs to. I can say because I go back to batterys in hard rubber cases with pitch tops dat could be rebuilt.

Battery changed for the worse when manufacturers got rid of cel to cel connector across top outside of de case. Got even worse when manufacturer figured out lead calcium plates and minimized lead using drywall in de plates. Then it got even worse when dey went to what amounts to rub together cel connectors.

Seems like everybody runnin around wid jumper box dese days. Nothin inside but a charger & small gellcell. Really, you think a hand lantern battery gonna crank an engine? It ain't, but it will provide enough electric to get dem rub connections back working and start engine. Same result can generally be had with small charger for a few minutes. Battery connected back together and lasts a while longer.

Parasitic draws on modern cars are he!! on them connectors too. Dey are biggest cause of battery failure.

Video shows couple fellows rebuilding batterys in Pakistan or someplace like.

First thing you see after top comes off is minimal connection between cells as plates are pulled out.

Next you see how little lead in de plates and how much drywall.

Lead gets melted and recast, and drywall goes back in.

Fellow closes up cel to cel hole in case walls and melts chanel for proper connection.

When new plates go in you see proper soldered connection made between cels.

Not sure dem fellows know what dey doing, but de battery they sell is way better den battery dey started with.

How Battery Plates are Made & Restoration of an Old Battery - YouTube

 

[Cougsfan]

I found that video fascinating. I had several thoughts come up while watching. 1) it is incredible how resourceful people are in third world countries. 2) Osha would shut them down in a minute if they were to have that operation in the States. 3) I wonder about the quality and quality control of those rebuilt batteries. My guess is that it's quite variable. 4) The amount of labor seemed intense. If those people were paid a decent wage, those rebuilt batteries would probably cost 5 times as much as a factory built battery.

 

[user.69169]

Well, dey don't live in de US, and dey ain't handicapped by OSHA. Probably makin good money for where dey are too cause dey learned skilled craftsmen just like US had before everybody had to go get Degree off some thermometer testifyin dey owed lot of money and knew squat.

Whole lot of hard road between "educated" and "learned".

Before educated people from OSHA came along we had good battery shops every few hundred miles in US. Had skilled tire shops too dat could section repair a tire too. "Education" put an end to dat!