Met with a well recommended builder today. I was very impressed with him. He charges 10%. He builds approximately 7 - 8 houses a year and has been doing it for eight years. He is currently building a house for the son of one of Garmin Inc. founders. Went by it the other day and it is HUGE! I bet the asphalt drive and outbuilding are worth more than my current house. My new house will be about a quarter of this house and I am looking at a little over 2,700 sq ft. (ranch). I was impressed, but will be interviewing several others.
Being your own General Contractor
- Thread starter Nissan197
- Start date
- Views: 5546
I've done it.
My experience is it is unlikely you will save much, if any, money because you have no leverage with subcontractors. They know you offer no repeat business so you go to the bottom of their priority list. One thing you can depend on...this is an axiom in the construction business: When a sub tells you they will show up at a certain time, that is the one time you can be absolutely certain they will NOT be there. It is apparently an inviolable commandment in the construction business...Construction Law#1: Thou shalt NEVER, EVER,....NEVER, NEVER, NEVER show up when you say you will. You, as the GC, have GOT to plan around this.
If you don't have a clue as to how things should be constructed, and the temperament to deal with people who know better than you how you want something done, you are better off to buy an already constructed house. Not act as your own GC or even use a GC. If you are not up on things, the GC is no different than any other hard-headed subcontractor for you to deal with. If you are not up on things, you probably shouldn't be involved in the construction process. It's a lot like sausage...final product is much more appealing than the process.
Would I do it again? Yes, in a minute. I thought it was fun but you can encounter some strong willed personalities and tough decisions along the way. You are unlikely to be totally satisfied with the job because you remember things that you would like to have done differently but for one reason or another, couldn't.
Also, there is another big pitfall that you skate around at your own financial peril...if your subs don't pay their material suppliers (or their subs, if they use any) EVEN THOUGH YOU PAID THE SUBCONTRACTOR in full, those people can file a lien on your property and YOU will have to pay the bill. Sure you can take them to court afterwards...and get awarded their 1985 Econoline van, a ladder (worth more than the van) and the company office assets (a ball point pen).
My experience is it is unlikely you will save much, if any, money because you have no leverage with subcontractors. They know you offer no repeat business so you go to the bottom of their priority list. One thing you can depend on...this is an axiom in the construction business: When a sub tells you they will show up at a certain time, that is the one time you can be absolutely certain they will NOT be there. It is apparently an inviolable commandment in the construction business...Construction Law#1: Thou shalt NEVER, EVER,....NEVER, NEVER, NEVER show up when you say you will. You, as the GC, have GOT to plan around this.
If you don't have a clue as to how things should be constructed, and the temperament to deal with people who know better than you how you want something done, you are better off to buy an already constructed house. Not act as your own GC or even use a GC. If you are not up on things, the GC is no different than any other hard-headed subcontractor for you to deal with. If you are not up on things, you probably shouldn't be involved in the construction process. It's a lot like sausage...final product is much more appealing than the process.
Would I do it again? Yes, in a minute. I thought it was fun but you can encounter some strong willed personalities and tough decisions along the way. You are unlikely to be totally satisfied with the job because you remember things that you would like to have done differently but for one reason or another, couldn't.
Also, there is another big pitfall that you skate around at your own financial peril...if your subs don't pay their material suppliers (or their subs, if they use any) EVEN THOUGH YOU PAID THE SUBCONTRACTOR in full, those people can file a lien on your property and YOU will have to pay the bill. Sure you can take them to court afterwards...and get awarded their 1985 Econoline van, a ladder (worth more than the van) and the company office assets (a ball point pen).
Nissan197: If you can afford him, talk to Dave Neighbors out of Olathe or Overland Park. (Neighbors Construction)
Bear in mind that anyone charging on a percentage, it is in their best interest to have cost overruns.
Bear in mind that anyone charging on a percentage, it is in their best interest to have cost overruns.
CurlyDave
Elite Member
Would I do it again? Yes, in a minute. I thought it was fun but you can encounter some strong willed personalities and tough decisions along the way. You are unlikely to be totally satisfied with the job because you remember things that you would like to have done differently but for one reason or another, couldn't.
This is the absolute truth.
Unless you have the big brass ones necessary to stand toe-to-toe with a hard-headed contractor/subcontractor and tell him in no uncertain terms that it is "my, job, my money, and will be done my way -- with or without you" you are not going to like this process, it wears you down.
This is why I gave up on subcontractors after the first one, and just hired labor which I supervised. This was easier, but there were still many, many confrontations about how to do any particular job. In the world of construction, anyone who has spent more than a month driving nails thinks he knows exactly how to do every job and that you are an ignoramus.
Now I am an engineer, and most of these guys have strongly-held opinions which are completely contrary to western scientific and engineering principles. While the laborers are more maleable than the subcontractors, they will also insist on doing the job their own way with dogged, hard-headed persistence.
I finally got to the point where I would carefully explain how I wanted a job done to a guy, and if he gave me any lip, I fired him on the spot. Paid him for the time he had spent, and told him to go home. There is a fine line here, where alternative suggestions are always welcome and sometimes save you a lot of time & effort, and firing someone who is just plain stubborn.
After a while, word gets around, and you will get about 80% of the job done your way. You will never get it much higher than that.
But, you will be spending extra time, and the clock is ticking on your construction loan, which means more money. This is a real balancing act.
This is the absolute truth.
Unless you have the big brass ones necessary to stand toe-to-toe with a hard-headed contractor/subcontractor and tell him in no uncertain terms that it is "my, job, my money, and will be done my way -- with or without you" you are not going to like this process, it wears you down.
This is why I gave up on subcontractors after the first one, and just hired labor which I supervised. This was easier, but there were still many, many confrontations about how to do any particular job. In the world of construction, anyone who has spent more than a month driving nails thinks he knows exactly how to do every job and that you are an ignoramus.
Now I am an engineer, and most of these guys have strongly-held opinions which are completely contrary to western scientific and engineering principles. While the laborers are more maleable than the subcontractors, they will also insist on doing the job their own way with dogged, hard-headed persistence.
I finally got to the point where I would carefully explain how I wanted a job done to a guy, and if he gave me any lip, I fired him on the spot. Paid him for the time he had spent, and told him to go home. There is a fine line here, where alternative suggestions are always welcome and sometimes save you a lot of time & effort, and firing someone who is just plain stubborn.
After a while, word gets around, and you will get about 80% of the job done your way. You will never get it much higher than that.
But, you will be spending extra time, and the clock is ticking on your construction loan, which means more money. This is a real balancing act.
gemini5362
Veteran Member
I am currently building a garage which is no where near as difficult as a house. I am hireing labor as I go along. One of the things I am finding out is my lack of knowledge of the building process is a problem for me. When they talk about building a soffit on the gable end I am not sure how to do that so I am at the mercy of the person I hire to do it. You have a lot of time between now and april to do some serious reading. I would go to a library and pick up some books on general construction so that you can see how things are done. Even with a general contractor you need to monitor them. Just because the blue prints call for something does not mean they are going to do it that way. General Contractors do not get paid by the hour so they are going to try and finish the job as fast as possible so they can move on to the next job. Even if they have several jobs going at once they still want to get out of there as fast as they can. you need to have a pretty good idea of what they are doing so you can tell when they are cutting corners and you need to be able to tell them that you are writing the checks. I dont know about you but EVERY person that i know who has had a new house built has had to have the contractor come back and fix some things. Let me repeat that EVERY person that i know has had to have the contractor come back and fix things. Some times it is just small things but since you have the biggest interest in getting things the way you want it done you need to monitor the job site. My father in law has a nice house, when he had it built the workmen and the contractor all hated him because he did. He monitored what they were doing and if he didnt agree with it he told them. Keep this thought in mind. If there is a problem with the house and the contractor has to fix it which way do you think the GC is going to be listening to you more. When you have not paid him and he is wanting a check or when he has been paid and he has to come back and fix something for free. Finally my last piece of advice. No matter what anyone else on here says TAKE YOUR CONTRACT WITH THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR TO AN ATTORNEY FOR REVIEW BEFORE YOU SIGN IT. That is the most important step you have to do. You are probably talking about 500.00 or less in attorneys fees. Call several attorneys in your area and ask them what they charge to look at a contract to build a house. They may tell you that they cannot give you an definet price but they can give you an hourly rate and should be able to give you an estimate of the time to review it. I am thinking that it should take less than an hour just to look it over. I can guarantee that whoever wrote the contract for the General Contractor wrote it with the contractors interests being paramount and if the contractor themselves wrote it then there is not telling what they put in their to allow them to slip out of problems later.
Is there a big difference economically for using 2 X 6's instead of 2 X 4's for exterior walls if using spray foam insulation for exterior walls? I want to save money and I hear if I was building up north where it is a lot colder for longer periods of time 2 X 6's would be the way to go, but for Kansas weather 2 X 4's are plenty sufficient especially if using spray foam insulation. Thoughts?
gemini5362
Veteran Member
depends on what you call a lot of money I believe and I am not sure that 2x6 studs cost about twice what 2 x 4 stud grades cost. then there is going to be more money for the frames for windows and window trim. door frame door trim etc. On the other hand 2x6 walls allow more insulation and you can not get too much insulation.
Paddy
Veteran Member
Go with 2x6 walls. I don't care where you live, you will see a pay back. The cost diff is not so great especially when you can build on 24" centers. The cost adder will be about $1.50 to $1.75 a perimeter ft. So a 30x40 at 140 linear foot, under $250. Yes the insulation will cost more but this is the direct reason for moving up the 6" walls. The foam insulation is good on two counts, 1) higher R- per inch (R-5 vs R-3.6 with fiber batts) and 2) sealed walls. Stick frame house loose large amount of energy to air infiltration. The down side to injected foam, it's expensive. I think it's Isonean (sp). The most bang for your buck is seal foam your stud cavities where ply meets studs, and don't forget the wire drilled holes. Then use fiber batt insulation. You get the economy of batt but sealed as foam! Depending on your exterior siding ther are other options. You can frame with 2x4, insulate with batts and sheet over the exterior with 2" foam. This will give you R-23. the 2" foam is not handy with vinal siding
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
I'm not sure I agree with Paddy here. The cost for 2x6 walls over 2x4 walls is significant. If you space your studs out to 24 inches, you have to go up a size in sheetrock. Your exterior siding may also be affected.
I'm not sure what Paddy means with the R factors for insulation. Most 2x4 walls are R13 to R19. I'm not positive, but I think 2x6's can fit insulation with an R26 rating. (???)
The adder R factor from thicker walls is only effective if you go to a tripple or four paned window, which are extremly expensive.
The thicker walls will do a better job of insulating your home, but your cieling is still the biggest area of heat loss. Most homes have blown in insulation, and in time that settles. If you put rolls down, they last practically forever. If you double up your ceiling rolls in oposite directions, you will spend allot less money than 2x6 walls and have better energy efficiancy.
If you lived further north, than maybe the return for the expense of the thicker walls would be worthwile, but I doubt you'd see much, if any savings in your area.
Eddie
I'm not sure what Paddy means with the R factors for insulation. Most 2x4 walls are R13 to R19. I'm not positive, but I think 2x6's can fit insulation with an R26 rating. (???)
The adder R factor from thicker walls is only effective if you go to a tripple or four paned window, which are extremly expensive.
The thicker walls will do a better job of insulating your home, but your cieling is still the biggest area of heat loss. Most homes have blown in insulation, and in time that settles. If you put rolls down, they last practically forever. If you double up your ceiling rolls in oposite directions, you will spend allot less money than 2x6 walls and have better energy efficiancy.
If you lived further north, than maybe the return for the expense of the thicker walls would be worthwile, but I doubt you'd see much, if any savings in your area.
Eddie
Paddy
Veteran Member
Eddie,
Fiber batts are R-13 for 3.5 cavity and R19 for 5.5" cavity. That is 46% higher. Sheet rock at 16 OC and 24 OC is still the standard 1/2". you are correct ceilings are more effective with regards to insulation but he was asking about walls. And yes I would go with as much insulation in my atic as I could. When I gussimate stud need, I go with one per foot of wall. This will get you close. The price diff in 2x4 to 2x6 is about $1.50. Call Lowes to be sure. If it was my home, I consider $250 for framing a small cost adder. I beleive insulation is one of the fastest pay back investments in energy conservation.
Kansas can get cold can't it? Same latitude as Colorado. also very close to the Indiana condition. No one builds with 2x4 in Indiana unless you are on a very tight budget. I hear, Further North, it's code to build with 2x6.
your from Texas, where the sun always shines though
How was your Family get to gether??
Fiber batts are R-13 for 3.5 cavity and R19 for 5.5" cavity. That is 46% higher. Sheet rock at 16 OC and 24 OC is still the standard 1/2". you are correct ceilings are more effective with regards to insulation but he was asking about walls. And yes I would go with as much insulation in my atic as I could. When I gussimate stud need, I go with one per foot of wall. This will get you close. The price diff in 2x4 to 2x6 is about $1.50. Call Lowes to be sure. If it was my home, I consider $250 for framing a small cost adder. I beleive insulation is one of the fastest pay back investments in energy conservation.
Kansas can get cold can't it? Same latitude as Colorado. also very close to the Indiana condition. No one builds with 2x4 in Indiana unless you are on a very tight budget. I hear, Further North, it's code to build with 2x6.
your from Texas, where the sun always shines though
How was your Family get to gether??
