mikeyd
Gold Member
Can the other UTV's with only a belt for a transmission be outfitted with tracks or is it too much strain on the belt or lead to premature failure?
belts?
- Thread starter L_Nicholson
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Skipholiday
Platinum Member
The belts are very tough. Out of 4 utv's I've never broke the 1st belt.mikeyd said:
You can get tracks for atvs as well as almost any utv.
Many rhinos rangers and gators run them. With all wheel drive thats allot of torque to the ground.
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mikeyd
Gold Member
I guess thats what I am wondering, with all the problems guys are already having with the belts wearing out and getting wet and slipping w/o enclosures even without tracks, can these belt machines realistically handle the additional strain from the drag of the tracks. Seems like the only people who feel safe running the tracks are RTV owners because of the durable hydro transmission. I know the track manufactures will sell tracks to whoever wants them but I have yet to see anyone on this forum with a belt machine running tracks. Anybody out there with a belt machine with tracks want to chime in as to belt life with a track setup?
Skipholiday
Platinum Member
I haven't heard of the problems you are speaking of with the belts. All the gas xuv's rhinos and rangers have belt enclosures.mikeyd said:
How do you come to the conclusion that the only ppl that feel safe running tracks are rtv owners? (because one rtv owner post a pic of an rtv sitting in snow with tracks?)
The cv trans is proven tough and reliable. They have been around far longer than the rtv.
I wouldn't say the hydro tranny is anymore or less durable than the cv trans. Just different types. Both are subject to problems.
Do you remember this thread of the rtv with tranny hydro track problems? http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/atvs-utility-vehicles/112802-1100-rtv-mattracks-beware.html
The rtv is an excellent machine. But it is not the do all for all vehicle.
YouTube - Rhino Mattrack Kit Video of Rhino with tracks.
OP
L_Nicholson
Silver Member
So please correct me if I'm wrong... but it seems each machine has its strengths and weaknesses. So lets hear the opinions out there and please this is not meant to be a "mine is bigger than yours discussion"
I'm sure this will be like buying a tractor with a front end loader... you can't figure out how you managed without one for so long. My application for the vehicle that I know of now will be farm related. Hauling feed, hay, kids, maintaining fence lines pulling a trailer and handling livestock and hauling out deer and hauling family to the deer stands. I would suspect that each machine out there could do these things but I'm sure a couple might do this a little bit better. I'll be traveling in fairly steep areas at times with clay type soils and along rowcrops so the ground will get pretty soft at times.
In regards to the RTV 900 and the "issues" I've read here and elsewhere about the seeming lack of power on hills and in the towing department... has this been experienced by any owners here?
Robert in NY: I'd like to here from you as well because I know you are out there doing your research too!
Thanks guys for understanding my concerns ... When I pull the trigger on one of these I don't want to wish I had bought something else a year later.
I'm sure this will be like buying a tractor with a front end loader... you can't figure out how you managed without one for so long. My application for the vehicle that I know of now will be farm related. Hauling feed, hay, kids, maintaining fence lines pulling a trailer and handling livestock and hauling out deer and hauling family to the deer stands. I would suspect that each machine out there could do these things but I'm sure a couple might do this a little bit better. I'll be traveling in fairly steep areas at times with clay type soils and along rowcrops so the ground will get pretty soft at times.
In regards to the RTV 900 and the "issues" I've read here and elsewhere about the seeming lack of power on hills and in the towing department... has this been experienced by any owners here?
Robert in NY: I'd like to here from you as well because I know you are out there doing your research too!
Thanks guys for understanding my concerns ... When I pull the trigger on one of these I don't want to wish I had bought something else a year later.
TOMMYHPX4X4
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the only utv that ever had a problem with belts breaking is the polaris rangers700(xp's). and it is a motor mount issue from what they say. some say it is fixed but there are still brand new units that the belts are coming apart on if you buy a polaris it's a good thing to buy a spare belt and keep it in the storage box with the tools st change it . as for as i know the motor mount thing is fixed but the belt it will come apart anywheres from 7 hours to 250 hours of use. with the xuv and hpx the only thing you have to worry about is the belt just wearing out i have never heard of anyones belt breaking or giving out. when a hpx or xuv belt goes bad it's because it glazes up on the side and causes it to slip.
Deerlope
Veteran Member
milkman said:
Born and raised on a dairy farm may be the reason for being up early. May also be some old army memories that don't ever go away. I never did the math for the PSI but the dealer said it was less than a human foot. The front track is about 38" X 14" per side.
Deerlope
Veteran Member
Some UTv's may not have an aggressive tread pattern but you can get them for any of them. My tracks weigh 900 lbs (4) thus far I have hit a few rocks and no problems. I watched just a bit age a Polaris with Soucy tracks on yourtube pulling a groomer in Canada. They weren't having any problems. I cannot speak about other UTV's because I have only had an RTV. Therefore I have nothing to compare with.
mikeyd
Gold Member
You are right,The salsbury type clutch is very old technology, it has been around for nearly 50 years. I have read many complaints with this assembly, but as Tommy points out, mostly with one brand. I have read numerous complaints on another brand lacking an enclosure which causes the belt to get wet and slip. This is the same set up as a snowmobile. Most snowmobiles are sold with an extra belt under the hood because failure is expected. Does anybody know if the belt type UTV's come with an extra belt? How many of you carry a spare?
I have seen and heard from several real owners of RTV's with tracks on the numerous sites I visit, never seen or heard from an belt machine owner who has one with tracks. Thats why I asked the question. The snowmobile clubs use the RTV with tracks almost exclusively to groom trails.The two clubs in my area use RTV's although all the major manufactures are nearby.The only issue I heard of with the tracks on a RTV1100 was a design flaw with the tracks and not the machine.
I have trouble believing that a single belt is as durable as a hydrostatic transmission, which is a tractor transmission, but, I am always willing to listen to reason, thats why I would like to hear from a belt owner with tracks so I could have the benefit of thier experience.
The initial inquery was whether there was another brand with the durable Kubota hydrostatic type transmission or some other type of trans that was not belt driven. My question was aimed at hearing from the belt owners who have tracks to see if the belt is realistically capable of handling the tremendous drag of the tracks or perhaps they might warn against it. So, again, I would like to hear from a real owner of a belt machine who is running tracks so we all could have the benefit of thier experience.
I have seen and heard from several real owners of RTV's with tracks on the numerous sites I visit, never seen or heard from an belt machine owner who has one with tracks. Thats why I asked the question. The snowmobile clubs use the RTV with tracks almost exclusively to groom trails.The two clubs in my area use RTV's although all the major manufactures are nearby.The only issue I heard of with the tracks on a RTV1100 was a design flaw with the tracks and not the machine.
I have trouble believing that a single belt is as durable as a hydrostatic transmission, which is a tractor transmission, but, I am always willing to listen to reason, thats why I would like to hear from a belt owner with tracks so I could have the benefit of thier experience.
The initial inquery was whether there was another brand with the durable Kubota hydrostatic type transmission or some other type of trans that was not belt driven. My question was aimed at hearing from the belt owners who have tracks to see if the belt is realistically capable of handling the tremendous drag of the tracks or perhaps they might warn against it. So, again, I would like to hear from a real owner of a belt machine who is running tracks so we all could have the benefit of thier experience.
mikeyd
Gold Member
TOMMYHPX4X4 said:
How long does a belt typically last until it glazes up and causes slippage? Are they as easy to change as on a snowmobile? Do you have to take the enclosure apart? Is it something that can be easily done on the trail when it breaks down. Does it start to smoke when it goes bad? Any chance of a fire hazzard?
mikeyd
Gold Member
L_Nicholson said:
The RTV is not at all under powered, but you will need to shift to a lower gear going up a hill if you have a heavy load, you may not have to do this with other belt type machines. I suspect the reason is because the RTV has the hydro trans which is more of a direct drive where the belt machines can slip the clutch on the belt and maintain momentum going up a hill. It is a bit of a pain to have to stop and shift to a lower gear, typically I run in medium speed when loaded to avoid shifting. If it is very steep and I am loaded I drop to low and it will climb practically anything.
The real beauty of the hydro though is going down a very steep incline when loaded. All I can tell you is that the trans braking is an absolute godsend. I use 4wd in these situations so I get the braking effect from the front wheels as well. You just can beat it. Makes you feel very safe going down hill while loaded.
TOMMYHPX4X4
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my belt will last 200 maybe 300 hours infact i can put my original belt back on and it will still go but i do alot of heavy haulling so i change it at 200 hours and i keep the old one. but no it doesn't slip as to where you are not gonna move it will just loose a mph or two thats how you notice the belt is getting worn out. there is no smoke and yes you have to take the enclosure off and the exhaust off the change it but thats only when the belt is worn.now if you have an enclosure and you take care of your machine you could probably go 400 hours without changing the belt i never go that long because i always do regular maintanance on my stuff and change things when the book says to change them . you need to lube and clean the clutch anyway so i say while you have the thing apart whay not thange the belt!!!
Skipholiday
Platinum Member
In 4 years and 4 utvs,I have yet to need a belt replacement.
The rtv has only been on the market 4 years.
Simply because this particular forum doesn't have any belt driven utvs with tracks doesn't prove anything.
Check out utilityoffroad.com and you will see rhinos with tracks and no rtvs with tracks.
Lots of them running plows as well. I have only seen 1 rtv with tracks here. Different forums have different users using different utvs.
To presume the rtv is better at anything is only a matter of opinion.
I don't know where you get the info about the belts slipping. It may happen on an older machine with quite a few hours.
I have never experienced it with none of my utvs. I've had an 05 hpx an 06 hpx and now an 06 xuv and 1 06 rhino. No belt slippage and I haven't had to replace NONE.
The rtv has only been on the market 4 years.
Simply because this particular forum doesn't have any belt driven utvs with tracks doesn't prove anything.
Check out utilityoffroad.com and you will see rhinos with tracks and no rtvs with tracks.
Lots of them running plows as well. I have only seen 1 rtv with tracks here. Different forums have different users using different utvs.
To presume the rtv is better at anything is only a matter of opinion.
I don't know where you get the info about the belts slipping. It may happen on an older machine with quite a few hours.
I have never experienced it with none of my utvs. I've had an 05 hpx an 06 hpx and now an 06 xuv and 1 06 rhino. No belt slippage and I haven't had to replace NONE.
mikeyd
Gold Member
Skipholiday said:
Well Tommy just said his belt starts to slip at 300 hours, plus I have read it and heard about it from other owners of belt machines. I don't have your owners manual but I would be interested to know what the manufacturer sets as a timetable for belt replacement.
I did go to that site and didn't see any belt driven tracked machines. I don't doubt you that they are there, I just couldn't find them. Anyway, I have seen promo videos of every machine under the sun with tracks but that doesn't answer the question, what is the real world experience of a belt driven tracked UTV? Can the belt handle it or will it need replacement every few hours? Will it leave you stuck in the middle of nowhere in two feet of snow with a broken or wornout belt? Do you want to be removing a clutch enclosure and an exhaust system in the cold? That seems like a legitimate question to me. Thats why I would like to hear from a real owner.
There are three RTV owners on this site with tracks, Deerlope, Culater and a snowmobile club. On compacttractorreview there are also three. Every snowmobile club I know has the rtv with tracks. I am not stating that the RTV is the end all be all I only would like to know why it seems that only RTV owners seem to have the confidence to run tracks on thier machines. Again, if someone out there has a belt driven machine with tracks by all means let us know what your experiece has been so we can have the benefit of your wisdom.
Skipholiday
Platinum Member
BrianW
Silver Member
L_Nicholson said:
I believe one reason some think the RTV is under powered is because they do not know how to drive it! The RTV pedal is not only a throttle. It is also a gear shift. The more you press it, the higher ratio you go in.
Now let us compare a belt with a hydro.
Belt: You come to a hill and start to slow down so you press the throttle a little. The engine RPM decreases due to load so the belt changes to a lower ratio (downshifts kinda) and the engine speeds up. The net effect is no matter how hard you press the throttle, the belt will choose the gear ratio based on engine speed.
Hydro: You come to a hill and start to slow down so you press the throttle a little. You just shifted into a higher ratio! Exactly the wrong thing to do! If you let up on the pedal you will go into a lower ratio and the engine will be able to climb the hill easier. This is why some here have noted that putting a hand throttle on an RTV makes it work better at some tasks. You can run the engine at a high rpm and control the speed with the foot pedal by simply controlling the gear ratio.
Belts and hydros work completely differently. Which is better. I think it depends on your application. Hope this helps.
OP
L_Nicholson
Silver Member
I'm familiar with how the hydro works and feels. My JD 4400 is Hydro and I know one could say it had no power if they didn't know how to drive it.
Thanks for the info.... Keep it coming!
Skip: what application do you use your machines? Recreational? Towing? Utility?
Thanks for the info.... Keep it coming!
Skip: what application do you use your machines? Recreational? Towing? Utility?
Skipholiday
Platinum Member
Rhino is only for play. The xuv is used around the farm to haul rocks dirt hay feed and to move trailers from place to place. (part-time)L_Nicholson said:
Mostly its for play as well. I have two sons (11 and 17) who cut it no slack.
You can see them both in the videos below.
YouTube - Rock crawling XUV
YouTube - Feemster
YouTube - Little mud fun with friends
TOMMYHPX4X4
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no i change my belts at 300 hours because i loose a little speed they don't really slip now skip never changed a belt before because he never kept a machine longe enough to change the belt i think plus i don't think he does the hauling of heavy loads like i do so there is no need to change the belt. but maybe i was misunderstood so i'll say it this way the belt never slipped it just looses speed it will still pull i have had this hpx sinse 04 and the only time the belt ever slipped was when it got wet other than that it doesn't slip infact i can hook it up to a load and pull and if the load it too heavy the engine will bogdown or the tires will spin but the belt will not slip. about the 300 hours thats when i replace the belt because the manual say to replace itat 200 so i go to 250 or 300 . if your worried about a belt breaking or slipping on a hpx or xuv that has a clutch enclosure i wouldn't atleast not with the johndeere hpx's and xuv's. sorry if i was misunderstood.
mikeyd said:
The only time I've ever had a belt actually slip on a gator is when the pulley loosened up because the rivets popped out or I was in water up to the floorboards. My machines get beat to death in every way possible too. Believe me you worries about the belt system are not well founded. If you drive through deep water then yes get yourself an enclosure or you could get stuck in the water.
