Benefits of block heater even if engine start without one

[3930dave]

Dave, I am sorry, but I could not say what brand, as there in no more sticker or tag on it anymore. If you go to your local auto parts store, see what they have to offer you. As you know, in the mordern consumerism days we are living in, the thicker your wallet the better the product!

Thanks for the reply woodchipper.

I'm always interested in products that work well, but especially today...... in many product sectors, things have been cost optimized to the point that it can be hard to find a high-quality version for a demanding application.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Dave,
That is a good article; thanks for sharing it!

P.S.
Refering again to the quote - Would someone please tell me what WSI is?

You're welcome Barnie.

I'm thinking Watts per Square Inch. An important point to consider. My Dad tried a basic motor oil dipstick heater many years ago - low surface area combined with those old oils did a good job of baking the oil onto the stick.

I've seen Kubota's specs posted on here re. HST cold-weather warm up times, and I suspect that other brands are similar. The obvious two ways to help that along are heating the oil/whole tractor, and using a spec approved synthetic hydraulic oil.

Rgds, D .

 

[DHD]

You're welcome Barnie.

I'm thinking Watts per Square Inch. An important point to consider. My Dad tried a basic motor oil dipstick heater many years ago - low surface area combined with those old oils did a good job of baking the oil onto the stick.

I've seen Kubota's specs posted on here re. HST cold-weather warm up times, and I suspect that other brands are similar. The obvious two ways to help that along are heating the oil/whole tractor, and using a spec approved synthetic hydraulic oil.

Rgds, D .

I believe you are correct on WSI = Watts per square inch

Here is a web site that mentions that term in regards to hydraulic heat exchanges

Heat Exchangers | Hydraulic Guide

 

[BarnieTrk]

3930Dave & DHD,
Thanks for the definition are reference point! :drink:

Here is another fluid reservoir heater manufacturer: http://universalpreheater.etipinc.com/index.php

They have many different types and styles of heaters.

Two units that I'm considering are:
UN-300LWD/120V -- 100W, 120V; $80. 4.25" x 4.75" = 20.19 sq. in. / 100W = 4.95 WSI.
or
UN-3X10LWD -- 150W, 120V; $80. 3" x 10" = 30 sq. in. / 150W = 5 WSI.

I'm a bit concerned about moving up to a 400+W unit, because it would be powered by the same extension cord (two-headed) as what my block heater would be plugged into..and I don't want to put too much draw on the same cord.

BarnieTrk :thumbsup:

 

[oldpilgrim]

I'm thinking about one of these: Wolverine Oil Pan Heaters for Cummins Marine Diesel Engines

Either the Model 9 or the Model 18.... ?

BarnieTrk :thumbsup:

how about one of these?

Amazon.com: oil pan heaters

 

[3930dave]

3930Dave & DHD,
Thanks for the definition are reference point! :drink:

Here is another fluid reservoir heater manufacturer: http://universalpreheater.etipinc.com/index.php

They have many different types and styles of heaters.

Two units that I'm considering are:
UN-300LWD/120V -- 100W, 120V; $80. 4.25" x 4.75" = 20.19 sq. in. / 100W = 4.95 WSI.
or
UN-3X10LWD -- 150W, 120V; $80. 3" x 10" = 30 sq. in. / 150W = 5 WSI.

I'm a bit concerned about moving up to a 400+W unit, because it would be powered by the same extension cord (two-headed) as what my block heater would be plugged into..and I don't want to put too much draw on the same cord.

BarnieTrk :thumbsup:

I think the WSI spec is of most concern with immersion heaters.... you don't want to be boiling the oil. As long as the pad type is not creating an external fire hazard, they should be hard to get into trouble with.

With a decent extension cord, assuming a block heater @ 600watts or less, that 400watt pad would be doable. I tend to use 12 gauge extension cords for that type of load.

Being external, the pads have a bit of a challenge with heat transfer through to the fluid. The one set of instructions I read recommended removing paint, down to bare metal, when installing on an oil pan. I could live with doing that on a tractor, but not on a road going vehicle here - oil pans don't seem to last long on our roads to begin with.

If I was using a pad on an oil filter, I'd probably go for the highest wattage I could - I'm not enough of a gambler to start stripping paint off of oil filters.

:2cents:

Rgds, D.

 

[GManBart]

Don't see too much benefit on a tractor. Best help would be a heater on the hydraulic system.

The Washington Post had an article recently that said warming an engine more than 30 seconds is exceedingly wasteful. I agree. I start them up and gently use them until they're warmed up, pretty much using them normally until "normal" on that day was running something at full or PTO throttle.

A good 5w30 or 0w30 diesel oil would do better for it in cold weather starts than warming it up. Actually, unless you live way south, the xxw30 is all you need. If you run for long periods of time in 85 F + temperatures at high loads, then maybe you need xxw40.

Ralph

The Washington post article probably addressed gasoline automobile engines, not industrial diesel engines.

I just talked to the Case service department about this very topic two hours ago. They flatly stated that using the engine block heater would be better than switching to synthetic 0W40 oil...and I was there buying stuff (including fluids).

I can't see any reason for them to lie since telling me to switch might have caused me to buy more stuff from them.

 

[BarnieTrk]

how about one of these?

Amazon.com: oil pan heaters

Some look better to me than others...... but hey, something is probably better than nothing.

But before you buy - I'd recommend you consider what volume of oil you're trying to heat, what are the dimensions of a flat, protected and lower surface you have to work with so you can size the heater accordingly. I'd also suggest you follow the recommended 10-12 WSI limit (for the reasons listed in Post #60) and lastly, consider the gage and length of cord you'll be able to use to power it without putting a strain on the cord or receptacle.

I've used Kat's heaters......I've owned a couple of their lower radiator hose heaters in a couple of my trucks. They worked fine....better after I started using a timer, rather than having them on 24/7 (other than when driving obviously). Personally, I like to stick to well-known brands, ideally USA made - but US-made is getting tougher to locate. Of course price is always an issue, but it isn't the only factor to consider.

BarnieTrk :thumbsup:

 

[BarnieTrk]

I think the WSI spec is of most concern with immersion heaters.... you don't want to be boiling the oil. As long as the pad type is not creating an external fire hazard, they should be hard to get into trouble with.

That makes sense to me. :thumbsup:

With a decent extension cord, assuming a block heater @ 600watts or less, that 400watt pad would be doable. I tend to use 12 gauge extension cords for that type of load.

Yep, I'd try to stay with a 12/3 cord, no more than 25-feet long. A longer cord just looses power to the ground/snow along the way - delivering less juice to the heaters......

Being external, the pads have a bit of a challenge with heat transfer through to the fluid. The one set of instructions I read recommended removing paint, down to bare metal, when installing on an oil pan. I could live with doing that on a tractor, but not on a road going vehicle here - oil pans don't seem to last long on our roads to begin with.

Agreed. I'd recommend a good cleaning, but I wouldn't be too worried about the paint insulating too much heat from going into the pan/tank. I'm more concerned about heating pad placement. Sometimes I get my tractor into some brushy areas and I wouldn't want the passing underbrush to scrape/damage the heating pad if it was at an exposed area under the tractor.

If I was using a pad on an oil filter, I'd probably go for the highest wattage I could - I'm not enough of a gambler to start stripping paint off of oil filters. :2cents: Rgds, D.

I think I'd prefer a pan/tank pad heater over a filter heater. A pad heater located on the pan/tank below the "oil line" I think is the better way to get heat into the oil.

The Washington post article probably addressed gasoline automobile engines, not industrial diesel engines.

That makes sense to me too.

I just talked to the Case service department about this very topic two hours ago. They flatly stated that using the engine block heater would be better than switching to synthetic 0W40 oil...and I was there buying stuff (including fluids). I can't see any reason for them to lie since telling me to switch might have caused me to buy more stuff from them.

...And there it is,,, right from the dealer's lips.

Thanks for sharing, GManBart & 3930dave! :drink:

BarnieTrk :2cents:

 

[CobyRupert]

:2cents:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but if would seem if you're relying on compression to create the temperature required for auto-ignition of diesel, then having a cold block (heat sink) robs the mixture of heat and would delay starting. But I guess the discussion is more about: So what if it does?