Best Drainage System Outside Pole Barn

[boggen]

looking at picture.. *looks plain ugly to me* for what you have to work with. ya need to build kinda of a mini basement wall for lower portion of shed/barn. and then bring in a bunch of dirt. perhaps i am wrong. single picture and short description doesn't give a full view of the of things.

but from what i can see, the area is high "were you are standing taking picture" and goes down hill "further away form you in picture". and it looks like fairly flat land on other side of shed, so if ya did put in french drain as you have it now "needing to dig down more to install it", you going to be running a 100 plus? extra pipe to find a low enough spot on a hill side to dump the water from the french drain.

if ya cut out more dirt to make it single large nice slope, with a little bit of a ditch... are you really going to get a good grass growing? looks like shed might block out most of the sun 1/2 of the day or more?

build your retaining wall directly into wall of your shed/barn. save some costs. and bring in a good amount of dirt back in. and install a french drain, that for most part empties out a couple feet from end of the barn, or ties into the gutters down spouts.

 

[jmd4j]

Actually, it's probably not nearly as bad as my first photo suggests. Looking at the picture, there is actually a slight up slope toward where the trailer is sitting, then it drops off after that. I just found and attached an older photo (before gutters) looking the other direction that may give a better perspective. Behind me in the first photo I attached, there was an old road that is about 3-4 feet lower than the barn, and surrounding land that I could probably direct the runoff toward. Runoff will definitely flow in that direction, as I stated earlier it upslopes to toward the trailer pictured. All I think I'd have to do is remove the dirt that is on the corner of the building, pictured in the attached photo.

For orientation sake, the front of the building is the direction the first piture is looking, out toward the open land. I'm not concerned with doors on the upslope side pictured, as it's first purpose is an airplane hanger, and then tractors or whatever else kind of junk I'm sure we'll probably have in it! I'm enclosing it after I can get the runoff to where it needs to be, then plan on having a large hangar door (haven't decided on type yet, but 40') on the front, a tall rollup door on the back, and a rollup on the downslope side. I may put a walk-in door on the up side, but nothing is set in stone yet.

The guy that was looking at doing my concrete also threw out the idea that you had also, on building a small wall. He recommended to let him poor the concrete pad, then build a 2-3 ft block wall on the pad on this upslope side and seal it, but that was before any talk of any more dirt work.

These photos are before any dirt work was done, and before the first picture of this thread was posted. I sketched out the direction I think the runoff would be, but the picture doesn't really give the slope or depth of that old road justice, its considerably lower/deeper, and more sloped than the picture suggests.

 

[kevin37b]

The only way to fix that is move dirt . Should have balanced the grade before ERECTION . Did I here Viagra again ?

 

[boggen]

i am going to say go with your concrete worker. but i am having a hard time judging your extra pictures. i don't think adding more pictures or description would help me, help you any better. it seems like you have a good grasp of the situation. though it may help others. that are more in the know / knowledge on the subject (day job). vs me little experience.

if he is doing the work, then he should put in a "key" or notch rather, into the concrete pad, were the block wall will go, possibly even setting some rebar sticking up, and tied into the the floor. (kinda of a pain in rear to do and get everything perfectly spaced to line up inside concrete block holes but..) its either that or drilling holes and dropping a few pieces of rebar down into the floor. to tie wall and floor together.

8x8x16 block walls are fairly cheap, more so it is a DIY'er cheap way of making a wall. if paying someone to do it, see on prices for a poured concrete wall. and having a water proofer put into the mix before it gets poured. "no need to seal then" exception between floor and wall there are a variety of paint on / spray on water proofers, along with pond liners, to roofing liners (for flat roofs) that could be used, to tar to water proof wall on the outside. there should be no need to do anything on the inside of the wall.

the big issue is getting that notch put in. for concrete block or poured concrete wall. (helps keep the wall from sliding on you). and creates a longer path way that water would have to travel between wall and floor. creating a better water tight seal between floor and wall.

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EDIT
causing water to go onto driveway *shakes head NO* bad idea. ya you want to keep water from your shed/barn. but sending directly on the driveway, just creating another problem, of needing to fix the driveway from a muddy mess and not able to drive through it.

 

[jmd4j]

EDIT
causing water to go onto driveway *shakes head NO* bad idea. ya you want to keep water from your shed/barn. but sending directly on the driveway, just creating another problem, of needing to fix the driveway from a muddy mess and not able to drive through it.

I should've mentioned, it's not an operational road. It used to be, back when I guess the barn down below it was in it's heyday but now, its entirely well-established grass.

 

[boggen]

*rubs chin* ground water... for me, i have to worry about "frost heave" ground can change from 0 to 3 inches easily in some areas on this farm. some larger sliding doors hang freely in summer by a 1" or more, and ground heaves (freezes in winter) and land locks the doors shut, with a paper thin sheet of ice.

i need to re-look it up, been a while, i want to say frost depth for me is 3.5 or 4 feet deep.

see attach picture

A = all water runs into the shed (no good)
B = little ditch maybe even a french drain, and some surface drains = water still getting under wall of shed
C = alright good, ground water that soaks in, is now starting to move away from the shed and no longer under it.
D = moving ground water even further away from shed possibly. i am showing a french drain up against the wall. to help drain area of water. ((fresh fill dirt going back in, it will take some time to settle / compact itself. and until then ground water going to move into the area.

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soils are different all over the place, some drain better than others.

percolation test = digging a hole, pour in say 5 gallon bucket of water, and timing things at a set amount of minutes and see how far it drains down, and how long it takes to fully drain out.... to be honest i don't know the numbers to tell ya good or bad. a backhoe or excavator = easy dug hole at x depth, or a PHD (3pt hitch post hole digger). good draining soil = excellent cheaper smaller septic fields. vs soil that takes a long time to drain = larger more expensive septic fields. is about all i know of it.

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while you may think you are dealing with a lot of "run off surface water" what does soak in as it runs down the hill. that soaked in water in the ground is going to also slowly soak it's way down towards your shed. how well it drains to lower depths of the ground, and removes it from the frost depth for your area.. *shrug* not a clue. your local companies would know much better, that work your area as a day job dealing with dirt / construction.

when frost heave hits your shed floor, it will hit it unevenly, causing it to crack in places. more so if you have not done correct compaction of the soil.


take pictures with a grain of salt, more of attempting to get concept across, more than anything. and in that further away you can divert water from shed the better. trying to collect and divert it right up against shed :/ gets ugly.