Best implement for removing native grass?

[Farmwithjunk]

Okay, so plows are old fashioned. Spraying is the way to go!!

But where do we start from???

How do we get from land covered in trees to cropable land???

The "No till method" may be a little difficult in heavy timber.

OP asked about "native grass" NOT standing timber,

After farming my entire life (so far) I sure don't know of any way to clear standing timber with a moldboard plow . So tell me.....How do you use a moldboard plow to clear away heavy standing timber?

And once the timber is gone, no-tilling or minimum tillage practices work superbly in recently cleared ground, where plowing in post clearing conditions can be a rather difficult proposition at times.

 

[IslandTractor]

So it appears that spray is the accepted commercial way to go for initial kill of weeds but I am still wondering about all those seeds. I imagine they would not be such an issue if you were going to grow corn or a feed plot but how would you prepare a field to grow a specific grass seed (i.e. the crop is the grass seed itself) to keep weeds and weed seeds to a minimum over time.

I ask because a conservancy farm I work with is exploring developing some native grass seed production plots out of old fields that are just now being recovered from a 20 year abandoned state and are currently full of nothing but brush, weeds and multple non native grasses. We need to understand a good basic strategy to move forward. There are about 10-15 acres of fields but it will be done in stages over years. The first goal was to just get to an acceptable hay field. So far we've just done brush removal and bush hogging twice a year.

Because this land has not been farmed in over 20 years and as pulling out brush has left the fields really lumpy I was thinking plow then disk/box blade to level things out. That advice came from a retired dairy farmer who is the closest thing to a pro left on the island.

Any other thoughts?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

To get a rough piece of ground leveled, your options are limited. Tillage.....For a piece of ground that size, I'd skip over the box blade though. I'd spray FIRST to kill what you can. Then moldboard plow or chisel, then disc or field cultivator. If you have access to a good HEAVY disc or a well built field cultivator, you might even skip the plow or chisel plow. Pull a drag behind the final "finish tillage" pass. Seed/cultipack to get a good firm seedbed. Plowing strictly for the purpose of weed control has marginal results long term. Even chemical weed control isn't 100%. Just keep in mind, seeding grass doesn't require a deeply worked seedbed. Most grass crops don't like a loose, fluffy seedbed. I'd also recommend contacting a state/county AG extention office if any exists, or a state university AG dept for LOCALIZED advice. What works in one locale doesn't always apply a few miles down the road. Keep in mind too, all us "old guys" tend to favor "old ways" in most cases. While that may work, there may just be a better, (and/or) more modern way.

 

[IslandTractor]

To get a rough piece of ground leveled, your options are limited. Tillage......

Thanks. I'll check with the Ag service. I presume you are using the word tillage in the general sense rather than specifically referring to a tiller. However I am wondering whether the use of a tiller might be part of the equation here. At this point there is no plow, disk, cultivator or tiller so all equipment will need to be acquired. Given a goal of preparing 3-4 acres a year, would it be appropriate to just use a PTO powered tiller? I have followed your TSC tiller thread and while the grey "KK" tiller version is not available yet in this part of the country the cost of a six foot grey tiller at $1200 seems less than the combo of a two bottom plow, disk and cultivator. Used two bottom plows and six/seven foot disks are not that common in this part of the country so I'd probably have to either pay for new or lots of shipping on sight unseen used. Looks like a plow will end up costing about a grand and another grand or so for a disk. Would use of a tiller followed by a homemade rolling drag/cultivator made from a piece of telephone pole be adequate preparation for grass seed (as in hay not lawn)?

This is New England so we grow lots of rocks. The land in question is sandy loam and not excessively rocky but there will clearly be a fair number of unseen rocks.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thanks. I'll check with the Ag service. I presume you are using the word tillage in the general sense rather than specifically referring to a tiller. However I am wondering whether the use of a tiller might be part of the equation here. At this point there is no plow, disk, cultivator or tiller so all equipment will need to be acquired. Given a goal of preparing 3-4 acres a year, would it be appropriate to just use a PTO powered tiller? I have followed your TSC tiller thread and while the grey "KK" tiller version is not available yet in this part of the country the cost of a six foot grey tiller at $1200 seems less than the combo of a two bottom plow, disk and cultivator. Used two bottom plows and six/seven foot disks are not that common in this part of the country so I'd probably have to either pay for new or lots of shipping on sight unseen used. Looks like a plow will end up costing about a grand and another grand or so for a disk. Would use of a tiller followed by a homemade rolling drag/cultivator made from a piece of telephone pole be adequate preparation for grass seed (as in hay not lawn)?

This is New England so we grow lots of rocks. The land in question is sandy loam and not excessively rocky but there will clearly be a fair number of unseen rocks.

"Tillage" was used in a general sense with no particular implement in mind. No reason why a tiller wouldn't work though. 3 to 4 acres isn't too much to take on with a tiller either. I did 22 acres in one field a few years ago. Took a while.....

 

[Egon]

I have erred by making some assumptions from the original post I must admit. But that is not unusual.

The assumption was that newly cleared land gone over with a root rake on a dozer would look the same today as it did 50 years ago using the same type of equipment.

In view of this a plough or disk were suggested. As I recall may such areas were ploughed using a very large single or double bottom breaking plough pulled by a Dozer. As Dozer Horse power increased a large disk such as a Rome Disk[ brand name] were the implement of choice. Caterpillar D8 or D9 the prime mover of choice. Then convention farming methods were implemented for the final working of the land and clearing of roots left over. These left over roots were not well received by mowing or harvesting equipment. Almost always this would entail some manual work for the final clearing of debris.

In one case some of our friends had three WD9 tractors converted over to steel wheels for the breaking of the land. This saved greatly on flat tires.

But in any case, it would seem we are back to recommending ploughs or disc's as has been previously mentioned.

On chemical use I have little knowledge and freely admit to that.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

But in any case, it would seem we are back to recommending ploughs or disc's as has been previously mentioned.

On chemical use I have little knowledge and freely admit to that.

We ended up side-tracking to another subject. Leveling rough ground. That's where the subject of tillage equipment came back into the topic. On the ORIGINAL topic of weed control, I don't see where we "are back to recommending ploughs or disc's".

I started farming in the early 70's. Times were changing. (As the ALWAYS ARE) By the early to mid 80's phrases like "minimum tillage" and "no-till" were solidly implanted into to AG scene. I resisted making the change even though I realized early on that was the way of the future. My operation was small time. I didn't want to make a huge investment in equipment for relatively small acreage, and also I was considering just how many more years I'd be "in the game". It's been ALMOST 3 years now since I sold the farm and quit putting out a crop. My decision to lay down the plow and quit farming was two fold. I got an offer on my land that was simply impossible to ignore, AND, my farming practices were just too outdated to turn a profit. Fuel cost, taxes, equipment needs, fertilizer cost, ect, were too much for old school farming on a small scale.

Heavy tillage takes time, fuel, big equipment, and therefore, M.O.N.E.Y. ..... OVERHEAD......

The best results AND the lowest overhead is with reduced or eliminated tillage, and chemical weed control. Even with my old ways, chemical weed control was the most efficient, least costly, and most PROFITABLE way to get the job done. When I started, I would cultivate corn 2, sometimes 3 times per year. The last corn crop I grew, I planted RoundUp Ready corn. I plowed and disced, then planted. A week or 10 days later, I had a hired spray contractor hit the fields with RoundUp. Then I'd just stand back and watch it grow.

 

[Egon]

I knew what the fellow with 40 acres of root raked land was facing. After he's got it properly prepared then it's a different matter.

Clearing timber and breaking land are just plain expensive now.


Forgot to add that I had the privilege of spending many an hour out picking roots.

 

[CTW]

Farmwithjunk brings up a good point about chemical utilization for weed/brush and or unwanted grass control. There have been many advances in the science of ag chemicals and their application. Down here in South Texas, we constantly battle Huisache and Mesquite on our pasture lands. Even if you do root plow you still have to come back with chemicals to eradicate the problem areas. To second the comment, your AG Extension Agent has a wealth of info on pasture management and restoration. In addition, seek advice from local farmers as they will no doubt have the latest info on what chemicals works best on various growth and what time of year is best to apply said chemical. Farmers livelyhood depend on controlling unwanted grass and weed species. As far as "the old way of doing things" I still see large ranches run huge dozers with loooong lengths of ship anchore chain (80-100 lb links) between them to drag down the bigger stuff. Seems to come back three fold next year, never understood why the did that?

 

[marksmu]

I cant believe that nobody told you to just doze it, and then build in a large fire break, wait for a fairly calm day and then burn it starting from the outsides, and burning into the wind.

When you do that you kill everything, if the seed is exposed that is left it will burn too. Then you can immediately plant into the burned disced soil, and your grass will overcome all. If you have small breakout groups of weeds or brush again, you can spot treat it.

Fire fixes all, and leaves nearly all the nutrients from the previous clutter that was there.

Check with your Extension agent, because most states require that you have a certified burn manager conduct the burn, and some require insurance for the burn itself.

But its still the fastest, cheapest, best way of clearing out clutter once its been turned over once.