Best roadside ditching technique?

[wasabi]

Could sure use some TBN braintrust input. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I don't find it in the archives.

We have several former logging trails that we are slowly upgrading to woodland roads...adding fill, spreading and packing it down and then adding gravel where needed. The goal is to make the roads as firm and dry as possible (wet climate) and then seed them to help hold the soil. In higher traffic areas we will forgoe seed and concentrate the gravel.

One of the truisms of mountain woodland roads is to get the water off the road. We have been chipping away at that by putting in culverts and swales and now face the need for ditches on the upside of the road to better facilitate drainage. I've had some luck making ditches by approaching this task kind of crabwise with a trencher (articulated power-trak tractor with multiple attachments), but I literally have miles of such ditches to build and maintain, so am wondering if there isn't a more efficient approach.

We have a power snow blade that can be angled and tilted forward and back. I'm thinking about rigging a plow blade to the side of an angled blade to scoop the dirt and rocks up out of the ditch up onto the road whilst the blade spreads it out. Would this work? Other, perhaps better ideas?

Thanks for any insights,

Sabi

 

[MossRoad]

Wasabi,
Is the road wide enough for you to get cross ways on it so that you can use your FEL bucket to scoop the ditches while you are on the road? I seem to recall that your roads were kind of narrow.

 

[stmiller2]

Sabi,

I can't offer any advice about ditching techniques, but you might want to talk to the folks at the USDA's NRCS (Natural Resource and Conservation Service) office in the county in which your property is located. They will layout berms, waterways, ditches, etc. to best move the water. What's more -- their services are free.

 

[BB_TX]

Have you considered a rear bucket scoop. Should be just what you need. Go to tractor supply and type bucket scoop in the search box.

 

[wasabi]

Yes, Mr. MR, our roads are fairly narrow which is one of the main reasons I opted for a Power-Trac with its superior manueverability /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. I could use the FEL or backhoe for the ditching, but would like to find a way to drive and smooth the road, albeit slowly, whilst digging the trench.

Never heard of a rear bucket scoop, BB TX. I'll check it out.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll let you know what I decide.

Sabi

 

[tbuff]

wasabi,

Without knowing more detail my $.02 is that you should maybe consider renting either a small dozer (CAT D3 or 4) with a 6 way blade you can angle and cut with along the edge while on the move. If you have literally miles of road, this may save your machine and attachments a lot of abuse

 

[wasabi]

Thanks for the heads up, Steve.

I previously talked with the Corp and the Forest Service but haven't yet talked with these guys or the county extension agents. Both are now on my short list.

Free and knowledgeable are good attributes, neh? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Sabi

 

[wasabi]

One of the main reasons I bought the tractor and gear I did was to be able to tackle projects such as this myself. I've no averson to hiring talent and muscle where appropriate, but am looking to chew this piece myself. I've got enough horsepower to not unduly strain it....I just need to learn to use the right implements for each job. ...

so many tractor projects, so many lessons.....guess I better take another course in bliss management /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sabi

 

[MossRoad]

I see. So you want some kind of offset plow type device to carve the ditch while you drive parallel to it?

 

[EddieWalker]

The right tool for the job is a motor grader. Quick, clean and perfect rusults. In my area he charges $45 an hour plus delivery. He can do miles in a day and it's perfect.

After seeing what a grader can do compared to all my implements, it's cheap money to get it done right.

 

[djradz]

There's other posts out there, some even with a few pictures. I'd recommend your rear blade tilted about 30 degrees and turned about 45. With a couple of passes you'll have a nice ditch dug and built up the center of the road at the same time.

 

[kensfarm]

"Best roadside ditching technique?"

[Joke] Tell her you think you have a flat tire and would she check.. as soon as she's out the car door.. hit the gas & haul a$$! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[wasabi]

Sounds like that would work, but we only have a front blade that will turn out and tilt up or down but remains parallel to the ground. On the PT forum we have talked about plumbing in another cylinder to allow side to side tilt, but I haven't tackled that yet.

 

[Phred]

I agree, the rear blade is the tool for the job.
I was in as similar situation and use a blade for this task.
The comment about the grader is also on target. A grader is just a fancy rear blade with some additional capabilities, but they are expensive.

Here is my solution:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/37-218325-bladeinaction1.jpg
You can adjust the angles on the fly with hydraulics.
Also get a heavy one. It needs to dig in and cut material to be effective. The trick is not to heavy so that you loose traction. This 9' is just about to much for my 70hp 4wd tractor, but in low gear it works great.


It sounds like you understand the problem; water run off.
Using a blade you can get the road cut such that if you looked at a cross section it would be an arc with the peak in the middle of the road. In this way the water runs right off into the ditch and not down the middle of your road, creating an undesired ditch in the middle of the road.

I don't think the idea of planting grass is practical since you will need to touch up the road periodically with the blade. This will mean cutting up that grass you planted.

Just my two cents....
Fred

 

[mikell]

Angle the rear blade and use a very short top link. Thats what I use to build my railroad grades in the open. It would work much better if I had power down.

mikell

 

[djradz]

With a smaller tractor we've had to rely on a greater angle and somewhat less of a tilt. With a big angle, the blade will almost act as a plow and really dig in, essentially being pulled deaper like a plow would if you let it go. This helps to compensate for a lighter blade and somewhat smaller tractor.

 

[Taylortractornut]

Id go with a grader, or a tractor with a side arm rotary ditcher. With an angled blade o nthe front and rubber tires your machine with want to stab into a ditch, or push the tractor out. Even on a D4 its hard to do in big bites. A grader with the tilt wheels in fron and tandems on the back it will be hold it in the road and counte act the forces. also he can have a ridge breaker on the back to kill and windrow in the road and spread it to. Or he can com back and make a quick pass or let you take care of it. Also a tractor like the county uses with a side arm rotary ditcher and cut a nice 6 to 12 inch radis ditch at a speed of up to 10 miles per day. It will throw the material up on the bank and spread it thin. I know youd like to do your own ditches but it would be time consuming and ad alot of wear to your machine. If it wer me id have a contractor take a grader cut the ditches and then use your machine to maintain them. and do the minor clean up work. On a backhow with a 5 foot wide ditching bucket and trucks moving the spoil i can onlygo about 3/4s of a mile in a day. Thats with a 455 Ford .