Best tractor list

[Bob_Skurka]

the tractor in the photos would benefit from the T & C approach in at least a couple of cases.

Tasks & Conditions are critical, and what I pointed out in my first post. So I'll agree with your general assessment but disagree with having a remote buried under my leg when working in trees. I've got a rear remote lever tucked low and next to my seat and don't have to move my leg or reach down to affect it, I'd suggest that is a far better placement, but is that opinion or fact?

You suggest the drain holes are an asset in the tractor pictured, but if I recall correctly the holes are RAISED in the tractors in the photograph to "provide grip" for your feet, they however would prevent water, snow or mud from draining from the operators deck. So is this bad design? It is fact.

Now rounded fenders are ideal for orchard work if they actually cover most of the rear wheel, but on the photographed tractor they enclose about 40% of the rear tires (which is probably pretty typical of most tractors that are not orchard machines).

For my own part the one "FACT" is that I don't know and probably cannot imagine all the different usages a tractor might be put to.

And to that I can wholeheatedly agree.

My butt has been on a lot of tractors . . . Lots of them have been my favorite at the time I was using it.

Knute, no question that we can all get used to what we have, we can all adjust to just about any piece of equipment. But I would suggest that there is at least some objective level of good design that can be considered and evaluated. And many of us consider a good tractor to be like a good woman. I could probably get along with nearly any woman, but my wife is certainly the best, and I'm sticking with that opinion.

 

[Soundguy]

Also for an orchard spray-rig tractor that gets doused occasionally, a floor without a rubber mat but with drain holes would be an advantage as well.

I agree.. the metal floorboard with drain holes is not a 'bad' design.... it is just a 'design'. I don't mind them.. water drains, and the holes usually provide traction. I can't say that I've ever slipped on a wet 'ventilated' metal decking.. however I have busted my but quite a few times on heavy equipment with bare metal decks and a bit of water.

Also.. in my experience.. a rubber mat on a metal deck is a great place for water to set... and rust the deck out.

Of course.. this comes from a guy that doesn't buy 'deluxe' tractors either. i favor spartan op platforms, and no frills, metal hoods and fenders, and lots of cheap hp, vs styled plastic fenders, more gauges and buttons and lights than a 747 cockpit.. etc. Having a gear shift or two between my legs don't matter much either.. And tranny humps? Where else do you prop your foot at? (grin)


Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

You suggest the drain holes are an asset in the tractor pictured, but if I recall correctly the holes are RAISED in the tractors in the photograph to "provide grip" for your feet, they however would prevent water, snow or mud from draining from the operators deck. So is this bad design? It is fact

Bob.. I've got plenty of tractors with the raised open bumps for traction. At least for my units ( fords ) they are great.. they drain fine and are good positive traction.

I have other tractors with flat pans for the op platform, and I have hurt myself geting off of then due to slipping.. dry or wet. Just a little sand acts like ball bearings to a pear of boots on a shiny metal pan.

I'd be surprised if that raised traction footboard didn't have a couple degree slope to it to allow for draining..

Soundguy

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Bob.. I've got plenty of tractors with the raised open bumps for traction. At least for my units ( fords ) they are great.. they drain fine and are good positive traction.

Chris . . . Put it in a northern climate and that same deck will hold snow and ice and be hard to clear without scratching the heck out of it and chipping some paint.

I think the hardest part about comparing tractors is that it is hard to determine what is good design, what is bad design, and what doesn't matter. Perhaps because we all have different perspectives. I still suggest that you can quantify some designs as good and some as bad, even if it is hard to do so and even if you don't get 1oo% agreement on the points.

Take the 39hp tractor I photographed, if given the choice . . .

• Would most people prefer a loader valve that does not completely block exit to the right side?
• Would most people prefer not to have to bend down, and move their leg to control the rear remote?
• Would most people not want to bend over to control the 3pt?
• Would most people prefer a tractor where their knee didn't hit the throttle control?
• Would most people prefer to have the loader hoses protected or exposed?
• Would most people prefer a bucket that was strong enough not to bend?
• Would most people prefer a QA bucket that had a nicely finished mechanism that operated smoothly or a roughly cut one that worked but was more difficult to operate?

Certainly some of the things come at higher costs, but the point is that most people can identify "good" versus "bad" design. Or at least can identify "better" versus "worse" design.

Bear in mind, at no point did the conversation suggest that good design is cheap, or even affordable. The original post posed the question asking for the "best" and I am simply trying to help illustrate the question posed.

I guessing you might go along with the statement "God is in the details"

Yup. How else do you determine quality? Or good design?

 

[Soundguy]

Chris . . . Put it in a northern climate and that same deck will hold snow and ice and be hard to clear without scratching the heck out of it and chipping some paint.

I think the hardest part about comparing tractors is that it is hard to determine what is good design, what is bad design, and what doesn't matter. Perhaps because we all have different perspectives. I still suggest that you can quantify some designs as good and some as bad, even if it is hard to do so and even if you don't get 1oo% agreement on the points.


Bear in mind, at no point did the conversation suggest that good design is cheap, or even affordable. The original post posed the question asking for the "best" and I am simply trying to help illustrate the question posed.

Ok.. lets see.. I'll try to address these in order:

1 Scratching/floorboard:

Uh? it is a 'floor-board'.... I kinda 'expect' it to get scratched. if it doesn't.. then I'm not using my tractor enough. Besides.. there are numerous 'hard' paint addatives, and surface coatings that are very durable that will help in this situation. even traction modified paint ( silica ).. Thermoplastic paint comes to mid as well as the paint on, non-rubberized, bed lines that leave a 'matte'/abrasive non slip durable finish.

In any event.. I liken a scratched floor board to any 'wear' item on a tractor.. like a cutting edge on a blade or bucket, plow moldboard.. brake shoe, or clutch pad... It wears.. you fix it...

FWIW.. the rubber pad on the op platform on my 1920 mostly came up after the factor glue let go when it was 3 years old. It had the 'deluxe' op platform. it took me quite a while to finish removing the pad without ruining it, then forever to chemical strip the deck to get the glue goo residue off.. so i could then sand the deck from the rusted spots where water had sat. Then a good epoxy primer and paint, let it cure, apply weather strip adhesive and a good bead of silicome around the edge and reattach it. It was litterally an all weekend project.

Had it been a metal vented floorboard.. it would have been a couple hours of prep and then a ? hour of painting.. then cure time.. etc.

I do agree that the raised bumps will hold some snow/ice... however.. i also see snow/ice setting on a rubber mat. At least ont he metal, you can chip it off and find some traction.. might not be so easy on a rubber mat.

2 good design / bad design:

I'm pretty sure I just called the metal floorboard a 'design'.. not good or bad... I will ahve to go back and re-read my message.. butt hat is what i remember typing.

I agree.. not every design will have 100% satisfaction in every application... Look at it like this.. at least it doesn't have carpet and fabric seats? (grin )

3 design / affordable.

Actually.. in my post.. i aluded to the fact that the metal floorboards were most likely the result of the 'cheap' design.. as the NH XX10 series is a no-frills unit.. as are the early fords.. they are straight utilitarian tractors with sparse op platforms.. The op platform on my 1975 ford 5000 is virtually identical to the one on my 2002 NH 7610s.

My ex Nh 1920 was a more feature laden model.. and it had the 'comfortable' rubber matts... etc. Again.. i don't see it as a good/bad design issue.. I see in some areas where it is an economy issue.. I just so happens that I like the economy metal boards vs the more $pendy rubber mats.. that is however, as you point out.. merely opinion.

Considering that 95% of my tractor seat time is pasture maintenance ( seeding/mowing ).. that also colors my views in what I think are good / bad options / designs on a tractor.

Personally I like arm rests.. My 5000 has a nice new chair with arm rests... would love my 7610s to have them... On more than a few occasions I've measured the bolt pattern on the seat brackets...

Soundguy

 

[texasjohn]

Bob, I enjoyed your post which parsed fact and opinion... you must have a little lawyering in your bones somewhere

I think that the net is that one should treat a tractor as a PT... Personal Tractor... there are at least as many options for it as there are for a personal computer... and their usages are both very personal. So, the best one... well... is a very personal choice

 

[Iowachild]

Originally Posted by Iowachild
I guessing you might go along with the statement "God is in the details"

Originally Posted by Bob_Skurka
Yup. How else do you determine quality? Or good design?

I agree! I am detail guy too. Although my wife calls me a "Perfectionist"!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Ah but there is the rub because some facts are wrongly dismissed as opinion. Take for example these photos, it shows a tractor with loyal fans here on TBN (and I will not mention the brand, I blocked out the name in the photos) I've pointed some things out in the past and been "flamed" for pointing out what is in these photos.

Photo 1: The tractor has the rear remotes and the lever is actually UNDER your right leg so you have to move your leg to operate the remotes. That is fact. It is opinion that it is bad ergonomics.

ALSO in Photo 1: Also, the tractor has no rubber mats or flat floor. For a tractor this size that is sold as a full featured tractor this is surprising. That is opinion. Fact is that the floor will scratch and rust and the large hump will get in your way. This is a large tractor for its power range, about 30hp, I know of only one or two other tractors this physical size without a flat floor.

Photo 2: This is sold as a 39hp deluxe tractor with HST. OK now here I hit one of my major pet peeves! When a loader is installed, these tractors become ONE SIDE entry/exit machines. You can see my hand in one of the photos, my hand measures roughly 8" across, which illustrates that there is no room to exit from the right of the tractor. It is fact that you cannot exit/enter from the right side. It is opinion that this is bad design.

Photo 3: This is the same tractor again, you can see the "stout" (that is how it was described by the sales guy) loader valve mount. To me it is a "mess". Both are opinions. Fact is the hoses are exposed to tree limbs or other things that can snag it.

Photos 2 & 3 will illustrate the next points. The loader control valve is also set in an awkward place (that is Opinion). Most loader controls that I have used, whether fender mounted or loader mounted, have the end of the loader control stalk/lever roughly in line and to the right side of the center hub of the steering wheel (that is fact). This one was well behind the center of the steering wheel, in fact it was in line with an imaginary line that would run from the bottom plane of the steering wheel (that is fact). It seemed too far back to me (that is opinion). Again, that is just my opinionated view. You can see how far behind the center of the steering column the loader is located in the first picture. In these pictures also look at the placement of the throttle control. With the throttle pulled back, it could come into contact with someone's leg who had the drivers seat pulled forward (that is fact), but it is my opinon that it is also a bad design.

Photo 4: This shows a very lightly built bucket (fact). The tractor claims to have lots of capacity (fact). My opinion is that the bucket is too lightly built and will be damaged far too easily given the size of the tractor and the claimed capacity. My opinion is that the top of the bucket should have some reinforcement instead of a simple 60-degree fold. My opinion is that the bucket top will collapse if bucket hooks are welded to it and a heavy load is lifted (again the tractor is rated to lift heavy loads). Fact is the bucket come standard with a QA system. Opinion is the QA system is roughly made poorly finished, but it will probably provide a long service life, even if it is not the smoothest to operate.

I could post more photos of these tractors as I did make a pretty complete review of them. I walked away less than impressed (opinion) because these tractors, while brand new, had the ergonomics that were roughly equivalent to a 1985 to 1995 tractor (that is fact). They had decent fit & finish (fact) but they were not up to the design standards of some other brands (opinion & fact). They were feature filled and low price relative to some other brands (fact & fact). Were they worth the low price? It depends on if you are willing to give up some things (and that is where the ultimate opinion of the buyer come into play).

So what I am trying to illustrate is that often FACTS and OPINIONS become intertwined. And things that ONE person sees are not always seen by another person.

I'm totally in agreement with your closing statement. My point is, even with a list of every known "fact" on every known tractor, it would still boil down to "one mans opinion" as to which tractor is right for each and every potential buyer. What your honest opinion of a particular fact might be could be completely opposite of someone elses appraisal of that fact. At best, we could arrive at "the perfect tractor" for one persons opinion of what perfect is.

I sat and listened to 5 guys debating/argueing about "who was/is the greatest basketball player ever" yesterday. Each one had compelling arguements for different players. (When we ALL know it was Michael Jordan ) I walked away, somewhat dizzy, and under the impression they ALL FIVE were right, in their personal opinions.

It makes for interesting debate, but who's going to make the final call as to which one is RIGHT?

 

[jwstewar]

Everyone wants to know the best tractor?

I've got it, it is the one sitting in your driveway/garage that gets the job done that you need to do.

 

[Egon]

Your wrong Jim! It's an older Kubota B7100 and sitting in my yard!

And by golly the places where I put my feet are metal with holes but they sure don't have any paint left on them but they ain't rusted.