Buying Advice BH? Is it worth it?

[grsthegreat]

I'm a firm believer in Dave Ramsey.... and he'd say your nuts to go into debt for something that you'd like to have...not need to have.

I could have justified buying a backhoe for my old JD tractor and written it off to my electrical contracting business......i still would not have paid for itself after 14 years.

I hardly ever needed it. Most contractors had a hoe on site for other stuff (sewer, plumbing, etc) and they cut me the line on their dollar. For the few times i could have used one, i was able to rent an excavator for $150/day and i can easily dig 600 feet of 48" deep trench in about 6 hours with it.

Now if you HAD the money, thats different. then BUY it if you want. If it will hurt your bottom line, especially with the way the economy is now-days, id say hold off. Later on when you get flush with $$$ again, then add it if you still need it.

Now there are alot of people that use theirs alot, and good for them. i wouldn't mind owning one either, but i had better things to spend 8 grand on.

 

[rswyan]

What does justifying a backhoe have to do with anything? Just get it, and enjoy the heck out of having it when you need it, or just want to improve some spot on your land. Yes, they are great for digging out rocks, and doing all kinds of other things that are difficult with a loader bucket.

The nice thing about getting one now, is that I believe the mounting setup (4 point) is much better than the older 3-point setup that I have, which no doubt makes removal and installation alot easier (.... than mine, which is a bit of PITA) :thumbsup:

..... whichever way one goes, it's all good ...

 

[rswyan]

grs,

Well said :thumbsup:

For the few times i could have used one, i was able to rent an excavator for $150/day and i can easily dig 600 feet of 48" deep trench in about 6 hours with it.

Bingo !

There simply is no comparison in terms of productivity.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I bought 10 trees one day last fall from Lowes on clearance and planted them the next day in under an hour. Went back a few days later and bought 8 more to make a "grove" and planted them in less than an hour. Wouldn't have bought them if I didn't have the BH but they sure look good this year and will look great in about three more years. I'd have never rented and transported an excavator back and forth and paid the price two different times to have done these jobs. I use my BH for jobs like this an average of once every couple of weeks. I wrote off half of the tractor price which probably provided and actual reduction of taxes of $2400 on a $16000 BX25. Is it worth the actual cost, maybe not but maybe yes if I sell the tractor and get most of my money back. Is it being handy worth a dollar value to me, yes it is. I guess for me the additional cost on a BX made it easier to swallow but I'd have trouble paying the additional price for one on a B and actually did have the trouble to the extent that I never did it.

 

[Verdemont]

To me it was. Just got my 2nd Kubota but I have a lot of rocks to move, irrigation and power trenches to dig, and I use it to dig holes for new trees of which I do 10-12 per year. So in the longrun for me it is as I'm a long ways from a rental and local contractors are $$ and aren't available when I am (weekend/mountain cabin). I guarantee in the next 10 years it will pay for itself 2-3x over what I paid for it just for myself. And I will hire myself out to neighbors up here who need light work as well.

Tom

 

[rswyan]

I bought 10 trees one day last fall from Lowes on clearance and planted them the next day in under an hour. Went back a few days later and bought 8 more to make a "grove" and planted them in less than an hour.

I have done similar ..... although less in overall numbers for purchased stuff - but I have transplanted probably 20 or 30 existing shrubs (Pampas grass, junipers, arborvitae, azaleas, and rhododendrons) and trees (oaks, maples) .... and it usually takes me a just a little longer (more like the better part of a day), as there is usually a little more work involved (in terms of prep work) than just simply slapping them in the ground.

Our soil here is fairly heavy clay, once you get below topsoil (varies from 3" to 12") ..... I have a huge compost pile that is ..... to die for.

Generally, what I like to do is dig up a good-sized hole (3' to 4' across, couple of feet deep) for any trees or large shrubs .... maybe 50% of the original dirt is removed and put elsewhere (mixed back into the compost pile or used for fill) .... and then a similar amount of composted material is placed in the hole and mixed in with the 'hoe.

Of course, if I'm doing say .... 6 trees .... that's a pretty good amount of compost.

Easiest thing for me to do would be take my 4' x 8' Country Mfg. 2 ton dump cart and load it with the excavated soil from the six holes with a mini-ex and then haul and dump it with the CUT, and then load dump cart with compost and haul it the 100 to 300 or more yards to wherever I'm going to be planting ..... except with the backhoe on the tractor I can't really do that ..... or use any other 3-point or drawbar attachment either ....

The problem for me is several-fold:

1. The amount of time and degree of difficulty in installing and removing the 'hoe on/off the tractor ... it's a PITA - probably due to a great degree to the fact that my 'hoe (BL4690B) is designed to be used for a slew of Kubota models - both "B" and "L" series (you should see the list) ... and, as a consequence, is absolutely a compromise in a number of respects (imagine trying to select a "one-size-fits-all" setup for hydraulic hose lengths - nothing really "fits" exactly like it should - if it were meant for a single, specific tractor)

2. The hydraulic performance is so s-l-o-w, when compared to a mini-ex, as to make using the thing pretty much painful (and that's not even mentioning how under-powered it is) ......

This is due to several things: A. a very questionable decision by Kubota in terms of the Eaton pump they selected to be used on this setup (they musta got a "deal" on 'em) ..... the pump is rated to run at 3600 rpm - try getting that out of a 540 rpm PTO .... and produces such low flow even at full rated PTO speed that it's nearly pathetic, and B. the use of restrictor plates in the control valve on the crowd & swing circuits ...... the crowd circuit is already plenty slow enough, even without the restrictor plate installed (I pulled it on mine, despite Kubota's warnings of doom and catastrophe) The plate in swing circuit might be have some degree of validity ..... maybe .... for some folks ....

"B" above particularly seems to say something about what Kubota believes the intelligence/skill level of their average CUT customer might be ..... thanks, but no thanks - please don't intentionally reduce the performance of my equipment to "protect" me ......

Wouldn't have bought them if I didn't have the BH but they sure look good this year and will look great in about three more years.

Same here.

I'd have never rented and transported an excavator back and forth and paid the price two different times to have done these jobs.

Perhaps not ... but you have paid for a 'hoe ..... for all the time that you haven't been using it ......

I have had multiple "excavating projects" that I have needed to do (and still do) ..... and I have rented a mini-ex with a very extensive and detailed list of things that need to be done, involving multiple "projects" .... most often in a certain specific order ...... many times, when that list is complete it becomes: "Ok .... now what ? ...... lessee .... I'll pull the 3 junipers, 2 azaleas, and one rhody and move them ..... before I load the mini back on the trailer so I can return it in the morning ....."

I live about 1/2 hour from the rental shop that I use (there's actually one only 10 to 15 minutes away, but I use the other guys that are further away) .... If I call ahead and schedule it, I can be there, hook up the trailer, load the mini, and be back home unloading in about 1:15 or 1:30 ...

The day rate for a KX41-3 or U17 class machine is $165 .... If I rent it over the weekend, it's the day rate (but only 8 hours actual run time) but I can pick it up Friday evening and return Monday morning. Additional hours are at the day rate divided by 8 ..... until you hit the weekly rate, and then you can convert it to a weekly rental, picking up more time, for essentially the same money.

I use my BH for jobs like this an average of once every couple of weeks.

And I can see that .... if you are flush enough have a BX series with a dedicated 'hoe on it (and no real intention of using the machine commercially - with certain exceptions) ..... and have multiple other tractors and/or lawn mowers to complement the BX .... allowing you to avoid removing the 'hoe several times in a single day because you need to do something else and it's in the way.

Unfortunately, many folks on here are not in that position.

I wrote off half of the tractor price which probably provided and actual reduction of taxes of $2400 on a $16000 BX25.

Well, I hope it was a legit write-off .....

Is it worth the actual cost, maybe not but maybe yes if I sell the tractor and get most of my money back.

Most folks are probably not ..... how can I put this politely ? .... professional equipment traders .... :laughing:

How many folks on here do you think will be in that position ? (of getting "most" of their money back)

Is it being handy worth a dollar value to me, yes it is. I guess for me the additional cost on a BX made it easier to swallow but I'd have trouble paying the additional price for one on a B and actually did have the trouble to the extent that I never did it.

Well there ya go ....

My original point isn't so much that people shouldn't have or purchase backhoe capability .... as much as it was: if you are going to spend that kind of coin ($7K or more) a better proposition (IMHO) is put that resource ($$$) towards a piece of used professional equipment that A. is probably much more rugged and better built, and B. provides much more capability and bang for the buck .... particularly if you are in anyway considering using said equipment in a commercial endeavor or business.

For me, the huge excitement factor of the "new, shiney piece of equipment" has largely wore off .... at this point it's more about how I can get the absolute most value for the scamolians spent ....... although I do have to say .... that B3030HSDC with heat and air sure does look awfully purty .....

 

[Johnstokes]

I agree backhoes are big $$$ Its all the hydraulics! I like backhoes so much I built one my self.

 

[crash325]

r. For the few times i could have used one, i was able to rent an excavator for $150/day and i can easily dig 600 feet of 48" deep trench in about 6 hours with it. .

I've dug over 400' x 4' in less than 4 hours with my TC45DA & back hoe. Comes out about even.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Quote = Not worth it to me, we have a Case backhoe that hasn't left the shed in years. When I or one of my brothers need one, we rent something. Quote.\

This makes zero sense to me. Go rent something when You have it??:confused2:
__________________
I have almost as much time on the BH as the FEL. :thumbsup:

 

[TripleR]

I've dug over 400' x 4' in less than 4 hours with my TC45DA & back hoe. Comes out about even.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Quote = Not worth it to me, we have a Case backhoe that hasn't left the shed in years. When I or one of my brothers need one, we rent something. Quote.\

This makes zero sense to me. Go rent something when You have it??:confused2:
__________________
I have almost as much time on the BH as the FEL. :thumbsup:

It belonged to my father and my brother has kept it for sentimental reasons. As we had no use for it for years it was stored and now would take more trouble to get running than going and renting one. My brother has plans on possibly putting it back in service when he retires and has the time, but machines that aren't used very often are a lot of trouble to keep running.

I have told this story several times and did not want to repeat myself again, I posted the picture with the tree on our John Deere and someone commenting something to the effect, yeah we have seen that before;don't like to repeat myself, but should have been more clear.

 

[Tom_H]

I think there is only one person who can answer this question, and that is you. It all depends on how much you would use the thing. I would recommend doing a careful analysis of all the jobs you do. How much of the time would you use a bh? How many times do you turn down a job based on not having a bh? How much would your net income be affected by renting a small excavator or subcontracting out to someone who does nothing but excavator work? Would a trencher (owned or rented) fill most of the tasks you would use the bh for? I would take the time to analyze your business in detail for one or two years. Keep a record of how much time you put in on each implement. Also record how much does not get done due to lack of a bh, how much gets done through rental of a trencher or excavator, and how much you spend on rental or subcontracting. Some subcontractors are so experienced and skilled that you will make more profit by subbing to them than you would doing it yourself, because you can't do it as fast as they can; you can put your time in on something you are more specialized at. Work through the numbers and see whether the upfront costs of the bh would be offset by the extra income the implement would bring in, or whether the extra income does not make up for the cost.

Most of us on this forum use our tractors to maintain our own properties, not as a means toward our livelihoods. In your case, it is better to listen to opinions that come from a business point of view, not opinions based on personal likes and dislikes. I might love wooden shoes from Holland; that doesn't mean I can successfully open a store in my community selling them. On the other hand, I might be successful opening a small skateboard sales and repair center, even though I have no real personal interest in the things. Your approach to this question needs to employ a careful business analysis and strategy. If you go through all the number crunching yourself, you will be the one person with the clear answer.