BH75 with UAT100 Thumb

[DiezNutz]

For those of you who are running the BX80, are you using a PTO pump or are you tapped into the hydraulics of the tractor. From earlier posts, it sounds like the L3400 can accomodate a BX80 - but only just. Is it much hassle to have a PTO pump?

I think most folks are just using power beyond off the tractor. IIRC, the PTO pump is about 6 gpm at full 540 rpm, the BH wants 5-7 gpm max. Our Kubotas have no trouble supplying adequate flow & pressure to the BH. The PTO pump came about for older tractors that could not. Yes, it is extra hassle to install and not worth the extra expense ($400+). There was an old debate over whether it's better to have a separate closed-loop hydraulic system for the hoe to avoid contamination of the tractor hydraulics. Kinda silly if you think about it though, because the FEL is using the tractor hydraulics and I'll bet you'll have the FEL on & off more than the BH. Just keep the connections clean, and you've nothing to worry about. Also, with the PTO pump you've got another entire hydraulic system to maintain... with oil & filter changes. What I did for my 50hr service was put the FEL & BH on and extended their cylinders. Then as I was draining the HST, I let them bleed down to get as much of the remaining fluid out as I could.

 

[Jw5875]

bigballer,

Yes I have an L3400 w/ geared trans, TNT, Wood's Box Blade, WR Long Root Rake Grapple, DR Chipper and 6' back blade.
I was in the same "Decision Process" as you are now earlier this year on a back-hoe purchase etc.

Fortunately, my neighbor is a Well Driller who has used and gone through a lot of equipment over the years. SOOOOOOOO I was able to attend his "School" since he has an L3900 with a Bradco Hoe (no PTO pump).

Lesson 1.
Kubota internal pump goes down, machine totally useless. No front loader, No Back-Hoe. Can't raise out riggers! (if using backhoe)
Lesson 2.
Should hose break BEFORE THE CONNECTOR TO HOE UNIT, no hydraulics again. (Back-Hoe maybe in ???? position working) and no tractor hydraulics for front loader. Can't raise out riggers!
Lesson 3.
A few bucks more, get the PTO pump set-up and make the Back Hoe and tractor hydraulics seperate.

Lesson Learned:

PTO Pump puts out more gpm / more pressure at lower rpm, if tractor pump goes out, you can still use Back-Hoe and raise the out riggers to get back to "Dodge" for repairs.

The PTO pump is a little PITA at times getting on the shaft, but having two seperate systems is more insurance to survive a hydraulic failure.

Buckets: ???? Think hard on what you want to do with one, and if buck's are no problem --- buy two!! You can always use the one not on the hoe for a counter weight in the front loader!!!!!

Bolts: Hey, my dealer and I both got educated on the bolt thread part # etc. (Wood's learned later) No put-down on them.


Again, before you put that bucket sub-terrain, make sure that you know what is down there!


JW 5875

 

[dfkrug]

Lesson 1.
Kubota internal pump goes down, machine totally useless. No front loader, No Back-Hoe. Can't raise out riggers! (if using backhoe)
Lesson 2.
Should hose break BEFORE THE CONNECTOR TO HOE UNIT, no hydraulics again. (Back-Hoe maybe in ???? position working) and no tractor hydraulics for front loader. Can't raise out riggers!
Lesson 3.
A few bucks more, get the PTO pump set-up and make the Back Hoe and tractor hydraulics seperate.

Lesson Learned:

PTO Pump puts out more gpm / more pressure at lower rpm, if tractor pump goes out, you can still use Back-Hoe and raise the out riggers to get back to "Dodge" for repairs.

The PTO pump is a little PITA at times getting on the shaft, but having two seperate systems is more insurance to survive a hydraulic failure.

In the rare ocurrence of a sudden and total internal hyd pump failure,
you will still be stranded, even if you have a PTO pump. You won't be
able to lift the FEL and, on some tractors, you will not be able to steer.

If a hose breaks, you won't even be able to run the engine unless you
want to dump all your hyd oil on the ground. A PTO pump does not help
here either.

You CAN get a higher flow rate with a PTO pump, but you can't get
higher pressure, as that is determined by the relief valves in the b/h
valve. The L3400 has a flow rate of 6.3 GPM at full RPM and that is
adequate for the BH75 or the BH80-X.

 

[DiezNutz]

In the rare ocurrence of a sudden and total internal hyd pump failure, you will still be stranded, even if you have a PTO pump. You won't be
able to lift the FEL and, on some tractors, you will not be able to steer.

If a hose breaks, you won't even be able to run the engine unless you
want to dump all your hyd oil on the ground. A PTO pump does not help
here either.

You beat me to it, and you are 100% correct. Unless you have a gear tractor, you're not going anywhere. Let's also not forget that on (other) models with the independent PTO, you lose the hydraulics you lose the PTO as well.

You CAN get a higher flow rate with a PTO pump...

Well, not really, not in this application. Like I said, the HST/implement loop pump on our Kubotas creates as much or more flow than the PTO pump. Most folks with either hoe will tell you that they rarely run it at full rpm, and there are some functions they wish they could SLOW down. The BH80-X at least has a swing speed regulator.

 

[dfkrug]

You beat me to it, and you are 100% correct. Unless you have a gear tractor, you're not going anywhere. Let's also not forget that on (other) models with the independent PTO, you lose the hydraulics you lose the PTO as well.

Well, not really, not in this application. Like I said, the HST/implement loop pump on our Kubotas creates as much or more flow than the PTO pump. Most folks with either hoe will tell you that they rarely run it at full rpm, and there are some functions they wish they could SLOW down. The BH80-X at least has a swing speed regulator.

My point is that regardless of what tranny you have, total loss of hyd
pump strands you. Even with a gear trans, you can't lift the FEL bkt
off the ground, and you might not be able to steer. Your point about the
PTO requiring hyd flow is a good one.

As for PTO pump flow, you get a greater flow by buying a pump that puts
out a greater flow. An 11GPM Prince pump will do that, but I do not
recommend it. Clearly if the pump that comes with the hoe only delivers
6 GPM, you gain nothing.

 

[hill]

The BH75 was $6000. installed with subframe kit and 12" bucket when I bought my B7800 last month.

The dealer's opinion was that BX80 was too heavy and BH75 was a better hoe than BX70. The point about weight was important to me as I was already wondering how the front wheels would stay on the ground on a slope. Turns out, they don't very well even with the BH75 aboard.

The Woods "Dare to Compare" is just silly. They neatly leave out the fact that the BH75 seat can be moved 2" further from the controls by the simple expedient of changing from one set of holes to the other under the seat, and I'm not sure who's bucket they show in the "see the wear bar" portion but it's not like mine. (do all Kubota buckets come painted orange like mine is, not black as in the Woods promo?) Mine has three strips of 2" wide 1/4" steel welded to the underside from tooth to mountpin for wearbars, not the weld beads shown for both Woods and the supposed Kubota bucket. The Woods does have a pretty curve to it's thigh though. I don't understand the need for a 'swing speed regulator'. Are there really people who cannot learn to have a light touch with controls? Hope they don't get a yearn to fly helicopters!

I may be pulling my iron out of this fire anyway. I bought the "B" series for the small footprint but now think I didn't give enough consideration to the meaning of the light weight of the machine. Light weight is good for a lawnmower, even a lawnmower glorified by loader and hoe, but when it comes to digging I need the thing to stay put. This tractor bebops all over when using the hoe - sometimes raising the stabilizers (which have already hoisted the rear tires) as much as a foot from the ground on one side or another. Pretty weird feeling as though I'm using a hovercraft with an arm reaching down toward the ground. Shoulda' bought that Case skiploader/hoe, I knew it but my wife thinks Kubotas are cute..........and she's right.

 

[dfkrug]

HILL, you are right on about the weight issue. Your B tractor is
quite light, weighing less than 2000 lb naked. Your loader, subframe
and bh add maybe 1700 or 1800 more lb. A BH75 will have no
prob tossing that around. I have used 2 identical frame mounted
hoes on a 2000 lb tractor (JD955, 4000lb total weight) and a 3000
lb tractor (CK30, 5000lb total weight), and the additional 1000
lb makes a big diff. BUT....my hoe on the CK30 still easily and
suddenly lifts the rear of my tractor when digging hard soil. It
DOES stay planted better than the lighter machine, however.
Neither will compare to a purpose-built commercial TLB like a
Case 580, which is what, 12-14K lb?

Woods has an adjustable restrictor valve to slow down the
swing speed. I have not tried it, but I can imagine that it might
be useful. I have learned thru hrs of use to feather my swing
and operate it simultaneously with another valve to slow it
down. One gets better with experience,as with most things.

 

[DiezNutz]

As for PTO pump flow, you get a greater flow by buying a pump that puts out a greater flow. An 11GPM Prince pump will do that, but I do not recommend it. Clearly if the pump that comes with the hoe only delivers 6 GPM, you gain nothing.

I was referring to the Woods PTO pump but you are right. I wouldn't recommend putting on a high-rate pump either, it isn't going to increase any useful capability, just make the BH even more difficult to control. I think between the two of us, we've concluded that the PTO pump is of little or no real value.

 

[DiezNutz]

...Light weight is good for a lawnmower, even a lawnmower glorified by loader and hoe, but when it comes to digging I need the thing to stay put. This tractor bebops all over when using the hoe - sometimes raising the stabilizers (which have already hoisted the rear tires) as much as a foot from the ground on one side or another...

I find myself posting a lot about this very thing. Many people seem to overlook how large of a role tractor weight has to do with BH performance. BH75 or BH80-X is pushing the limit of what a B can really do, but then again it also depends on how you're using it and soil conditions. I don't feel that they're too big, especially not for an L... you just have to use them properly.

Speaking of which, you want to try not to let the hoe pick the tractor up off of the stabilizers. With a little practice you'll learn where the "point of no return is". More importantly, if it does raise up, feather the boom up so that it doesn't smack down onto the stabilizers... that's one of the hardest things on your whole rig.

 

[dfkrug]

I find myself posting a lot about this very thing. Many people seem to overlook how large of a role tractor weight has to do with BH performance. BH75 or BH80-X is pushing the limit of what a B can really do, but then again it also depends on how you're using it and soil conditions. I don't feel that they're too big, especially not for an L... you just have to use them properly.

I agree, weight is of perhaps greatest importance. I just got a Kubota
B21 project tractor and I am very curious as to how that tractor will
perform compared to my CK30 setup. The hoe is the same size, but the
tractor is 1000lb lighter. It has Grand L-class hyd pump flow, however,
which is almost exactly what my CK30 delivers. Very stout frame, too.
It has at least an HST problem and I acquired the unit in a disassembled
state. A fun project.