Bidding a job

   / Bidding a job #11  
John, Your getting some good advice here and a bit of nonsense comment in my opinion. Let me go off tangent a minute.....If your working for a General Contractor in the State of Maryland you are covered under his MHIC liscence to do any residential work. Farm work may be exempt from MHIC regulation unless perhaps you touch the farmer's house. However, you still need a Maryland Contractors license which is the simplest of licenses to obtain in our state for non-residential work. Been awhile but I'm guessing it's $15.00 obtainable thru the Clerk of the Court in your County of residence. Additionally, if this becomes a business venture (already is) you need to get Workman's Compensation insurance. Any General Contractor who is REAL will request a Certificate of Insurance. Be careful because unscripulious Contractor's will suck new guys in, let them do the work, deduct costs for insurance the Sub doesn't have, inflate the rate, etc. etc. . Minimum Liability, Workman's Comp., and road vehicle insurance thresholds will have to be met. Not necessilary Maryland minimums, but those imposed by the General Contractor's underwriter. Gettin interesting now... As a sole propreiter you can waive your Workman's Compensation coverage (Owner only) but here's the problem; you will battle the State of Md. at every turn. Been there, done it. They can't stand sole proprietors who don't contribute to their cause. It's our law and but drives em nuts. With a "Contractor's license" you will be limited to Commercial work and work under a General Contractor on residences. To go homeowner direct it's Maryland State Home Improvement Commision License or bust. That's more involved and totally unrelated to your ability to do the work. It's all about sales regulations and your business knowledge. If you're up here I bet you can pass the test first go. Failure rate on the initilal test was over 50% last I knew. Don't underestimate it. Back to your question....

$1,100.00 may not be enough. Your contract with the General Contractor is Stipulated Sum the way it sounds. Your only recourse to collect additional $$ is if there is a Change Order to the Contract; assuming there is a written Contract, cleary defined work scope, and escalation clauses for unforseen conditions. If you're not under Contract, and additional work is required, you have to hope both the Contractor and the Farmer are good people who are not adverse to parting with money they didn't plan on spending. Don't know many of them.

Here's why you may need more $$. Amazingly, in this instance, the General Contractor could be right and some guys who operate tractors could be wrong. The $55.00/hr. rate is about right (maybe 65.00) for you and the machine only. Your total hours sound a little high at first blush but if I'm working in an animal trench I'm not in some flat field with known good soils. The work doesn't start and stop over 60' of trench. Did you look at the job and estimate it? That shouldn't be called out as a work scope line item (contract) but you need to be paid and recover something for time spent. Is your tow vehicle and trailer free of any costs? Certainly not. You need haul in and haul out fees on this. These costs are real and need to be added. Is this animal depression you are getting ready to excavate 100 years old with perpetual rainwater problems? If so, you may be amazed at the sad state or incredible compaction of the soil you remove. Your Contract needs an escalation/exclusion clause for; excavation material not suitable for backfill and for rock, among a few others. You certainly don't have rock excavation costs in here. You don't have overburden disposal costs for unsuitable soils should they be encountered. You don't have borrow material excavation and transportation costs in here to find good backfill if it's needed. Enough said.

I'd go at say $1,900.00, do a formal Contract (yours or the General Contractor's as long as it reads right) , get your Liability insurance and Contractor's license at an absolute minimum, call Miss Utility, and do the work. IMO Erie is the best Liability insurance around for your needs. You'll figure the balance of this out as you go. Just wanted to make sure you had your head up for the launch.

Best of Luck.
 
   / Bidding a job #12  
The $65/hr rate jives with what the excavating contractor I work for charges for a small machine. We try to take all work on an hourly basis with a minimum, plus delivery charge. If we take a fixed price contract there is always a clause about additional charges for ledge or other difficult digging conditions.

Andy
 
   / Bidding a job #13  
Andy, Exactly! I see you up here quite often with nearly always sensible comment. Like me I hope??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

After a second re-read.....Let me clarify the second sentence of the third paragraph of my earlier post. It was one short post who perhaps wants to one day.... operate a tractor. I should have said guy, not guys. Should have been more concise. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, I appreciate the response. John (initial poster) is a guy with a great question with no absolute answer. I want to see it work for him and I'm glad (not suprised) he is getting some good advise here.

Regards,


Enjoy,
 
   / Bidding a job #14  
i usually get about 55 and hour plus travel time, depending on the part of town i am working in /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif . most of my jobs have been bid so far, and i usually end up overestimating my materials and underestimating my time. i usually add at least 50% (of my cost) to the cost of goods sold. in my area there are ALOT of landscapers and property management guys. that leaves little room for profit. lucky for them, i work 60 hours a week in the asphalt business, and just use my tractor on my own sidework, so if i bid a job and get it, great! if not, no biggy. i WONT lose money on it, as most will do, just to get the work.

my biggest piece of advice i can give you is- bid the job so you WILL make money. if you dont get the bid, so be it. there is plenty of other work to bid on. you just have to give it time. if you are awarded 2/3 of the jobs that you have bid, you are doing better than most. if that becomes the case, then you should up your rates.
 
   / Bidding a job #15  
Put a first name in your user profile or your close. Nobody up here will hunt us down for that. Promise.

I used to get about 50% of what I bid when I was in business. Now that I've moved down the food chain (employee) I only get about 23% of what I bid. The rest of the team closes about 12% of their quotes. Now, I surface feed. If the company can't make respectable margins, I don't go there. I've also figured how to get the highest profitability (per job) in combination with the highest sales (contracts in our business). It's more art than science and once you figure it out your about 10 or 15 years from being useless (retiring). It takes that awful long unless your both lucky and gifted. Very darn few youngsters can go there.

Point being the larger you get, the more horsepower you should have in sales, the more $$ you should sell, and the less percentage of total bids you should be awarded. That's just how it works.... and should. That ain't even science.

See ya roccon31...
 
   / Bidding a job #16  
Job could also get interesting if you hit muck or sand that won't hold vertical sides on the trench - then you are going to be removing a lot more dirt, and how to put the rock back in over the top of the pipe will get tricky, or you will need a lot more rock.

I'd go with an hourly rate bid along with a good-faith estimate of the number of hours with assumptions listed and conditions that could make it take longer.

For the grading, I'd bid a fixed number of hours. Since there is no real good way to define when its "perfect", I'd spend that much time moving and smoothing the dirt and call it done.

- Rick
 
   / Bidding a job #17  
i guess i should get a little more familiar with this type of forum. it is very different than the others i am on. i simply hit the reply button, not realizing i was replying directly to you. sorry about that. i was simply trying to give the thread starter some of my experiences as i am just starting out as well. i will be looking to branch out on my own in the next few years. i have ALOT to learn about the business world. i have alot of tricks of the trade, but the business end tends to bite me in the rear sometimes. what can i say, im new /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / Bidding a job #18  
Don't sweat it. The reply is often to the individual as a contribtion to the thread. Didn't know squat on this 4 weeks ago. I often reply to the last post which is not always what I should do. We figure it out somehow. I was commenting to your post, as part of the discussion. You're doing great! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

FYI. I got my tail chewed on by one of the moderators on my third post. Didn't like my tractor buying exercise. You are exponentially ahead of me so far. It's a fun and wild world up here. Very glad to have you in the mix.

Don't be disuaded buy direct comment. It's a bit blunt here sometimes. Tractor guys??? Yeah, but in this day and world they must have done something right to even be here. Look at the BIOS. These are not average people. You'll like it here and I know you'll fit.

Regards,
 
   / Bidding a job #19  
I am watching this thread close as I want to get into business with my tractor in the spring. Lots of good advice. Not directly related, but when I worked in Tool & Die they only won about 5% or less of their bids. Better to go high and not lose money I think.

ksmmoto
 
   / Bidding a job
  • Thread Starter
#20  
Thank you all for the great replies. Again I am in awe at the wealth of knowledge being shared on this forum.

I am telling the GC to "pad" my original quote as he sees fit since he feels it is necessary. If I were dealing with the homeowner directly I would provide a written "Estimate" that would have clauses that covered me in case it took longer because of the conditions. I do plan to walk over the site with the homeowner before I do anything to explain my plan of attack so he will know what to expect.

In this case, there are some conditions there that concern me and might help explain my original quote to those who thought it might be a little high. If the soil were dry and packed I am certain that I would be done w/ the trench in a few hours but it is very wet and "never dries" completely. When I walked it off with the GC I felt like I was walking on pudding! Judging by the mud marks on the cows legs their feet are plunging over a foot down. So I anticipate the grading to take the longest and to be the most challenging. I obviously will not try to trench in mud so i am scraping until I can trench and may end up having to bring in some more suitable soil for the area where the drain tile is going. These conditions were caused mainly by the rainwater from the barns gable roof. When it rains the dripline gets pounded. I was planning to run the gravel all the way to the surface along the dripline to help prevent erosion and to encourage the water to get down into the drain tile to eliminate the mud bogging effect.

I already have my license from the county, did that immediately after incorporating. I have been shopping for G/L insurance and will get that soon. I want to get my MHIC so I can go direct to homeowners but I have to wait on that one until I get more funds built up.

I am going to post before, during and after pics in the projects section when I get it started. I will post a note to the end of this thread to notify those interested. Could be quite entertaining!

JohnSr
 

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