Big box stores: Inferior tools?

EddieWalker · Oct 26, 2012

I doubt that I use my tools as hard as some of you guys do, or that I spend as much time building stuff as some of you, so my opinion is just based on my experiences. I buy tools and materials from Home Depot, Lowes and McCoys. I also go to three plumbing suppliers and two electrical suppliers for guys in the trades. I friends with some of the guys who work at the stores, and think they are pretty upfront with me. If they know of a better deal or product, they let me know where to go. They don't get that sale from me, but they get my business long term trust.

My first question is what brand of tools are you buying? and where are you supposedly getting a better version of that tool? With power tools, I'm a huge Makita fan, but also like Bosch. I try other brands from time to time, and usually know that when buying it, I'm wasting my money long term, but I need it right away to get something done and it should work long enough for that. DeWalt is a brand that has everything, anywhere you go. It doesn't last very long, but it's affordable and for a little bit, does a good job.

So if I wanted to buy a circular saw, and I like Bosch or Makita, where would I go to get a better version then what they sell at Home Depot or Lowes?

Another example is the new Hitachi framing gun that I bought last week. I looked online, read tons of reviews and went for this model at Lowes. Nowhere did I see it cheaper online, and of the three box stores that I shop at, Lowes had the best price. If it fails on me, I know that I can return it for what I paid for it without any hassle at Lowes. What could be better then that?

As for faucets coming from a supplier over the box store being better, I say that's BS. Moen, Kohler, PF, Delta and whatever big name brand out there are all making disposable junk with fancy finishes that you pay more for. They mass produce them in other countries and have people to call 24/7 to get replacements that fail out of the package. It's happened enough times for me to be almost common. The only difference you get at teh supply house is the guy selling it to you knows it's junk, and the guy at Home Depot telling you it's quality.

I've never come across a mom and pop store that failed because of the box store opening up. In every case, they fail because of poor service and bad attitudes. The ones that are doing well are doing so because of the service they provide.

Eddie

smilingreen · Oct 26, 2012

I worked as a field service engineer for automation assembly line companies for years. Assembly lines are now made to run different parts. There is no retooling involved any more on vibratory hopper, feeders and sorters or the line. Usually it is just a flip of a switch. Gone are the days when a new product line required all the old lines to be torn out and new lines installed to run a different product, unless it is a automotive assembly line and they are introducing a brand new model.

A case of a power tool will basically be the same, regardless of whether it is the big box store model or a professional tool seller model. It is the internal parts that are made with different materials. Take for instance: Motor windings. Enameled motor wire. You can have a armature with a thinner coating of enamel on the windings. It still works with that thinner coating of enamel. But, use that motor every day for a little while, or really torque that motor out and see how long before the armature burns out in comparison to the same sized armature that has a thicker coating of enamel on the windings. The higher quality armature with the better grade wire is still physically the same size as the cheaper one and it fits into the case perfectly. Motor brush holders are a way to cheapen the cost of the tool, also. A plastic brush holder vs a metal brush holder. Bearings and bushings are the same way: The cheap bearings and bushings are the exact same size as the more expensive ones, so they will fit perfectly into the case. Same thing with gears. Nylon vs steel. All still the same dimensions, just a big difference in quality, wear and long term performance. Beauty is only skin deep. It is what is on the inside that counts. You still get what you pay for.

smilingreen · Oct 26, 2012

Also, a item may have the same part number, but the serial number is what really counts. Manufacturers will have multiple suppliers building sub-assemblies for them. You will never know where or how that item was build until you need service on it. You can give the parts guy your model number for your item and tell him you need widget #xxx-xxxx-xxxxx according to the parts manual and the first thing he is going to ask you is what the serial number is. He has a record of what groups of serial numbers were built where and that number will determine if you actually get widget #xxx-xxxx-xxxxx or you have to buy a whole new sub assembly, which is part # xcx-xcx-xxccc because your tool was built with supplier #65's parts on such and such a day and supplier #65 used sub standard parts in their sub-assemblies and your tool manufacturer didn't catch that glitch until after 4 months of production was shipped out the door. Are they going to recall all of those tools with sub assemblies made by supplier #65? Not usually, unless the part issue is a life and death situation. No, they are going to wait until the unit fails and then sell you a whole new sub assembly made by supplier #66, which used better made parts.

If you only use a tool once in a great while, it is probably safe to buy the cheaper one and yes, it will usually last many years based off of the frequency it was used. If you use the tool every single day, it would be wiser to purchase tools from a known reputable dealer, not a big box store. But, it is your money.

smilingreen · Oct 26, 2012

"So why does my JD LA135se bought from the JD dealer in Harrison Ar. have a Briggs engine in it, same as the ones at Lowes?"

Cause in this economy, John Deere has been forced to compete with the junk that the big box stores are now selling. Believe me, the local dealer who has been in business for years selling quality products doesn't like having the cheap model on his show room floor, it is dictated to him by John Deere themselves which models the store gets and what models will be pushed based off of marketing data for a certain regional area. If you travel any, you will notice some John Deere dealerships don't carry the same products as another John Deere dealership does 40 miles down the road. What products the dealership is allowed to sell is dictated by John Deere and their marketing data. Weird, eh?

Carl Bert · Oct 26, 2012

k0ua said:
Yes there are different models of some products in big box stores , made just for them as cost cutting measures, so what? But if you compare the exact same plumbing fixture in a big box store and the exact same fixture in a plumbing store, they are the same thing. The only difference is the price. To say that tools in a big box store are junk is just Junk! Sure there are different lower cost models, sometimes used as loss leaders to get you in the store, but if you compare the exact model to the exact model they are the SAME.

John Deere 100 series mowers are apparently made in Greeneville TN.

John Deere Shows Off 'Made In Greeneville' Mowers - The Greeneville Sun

James K0UA

That statement could not possibly be more incorrect. The thing I am shocked about, is how many people are unaware of this fact. This is not a big secret, as I said before its common knowledge.

Truth is, even knowing this, I shop at Lowes and HD all the time. Some things I will buy and some I won't. As Geneha had said, the return policy cant be beat. So if it is something that is easily replaced, even though I know its not of the same quality, who cares I can always return it.

An example of something that I would not buy, would be a hot water heater. If that goes bad, now I would be paying an additional plumbing bill as well. So in other words, if its going to cost me money or time to replace an item, it won't be purchased at a BB store. If not, then why not.

Pops15 · Oct 26, 2012

smilingreen said:
Also, a item may have the same part number, but the serial number is what really counts. Manufacturers will have multiple suppliers building sub-assemblies for them. You will never know where or how that item was build until you need service on it. You can give the parts guy your model number for your item and tell him you need widget #xxx-xxxx-xxxxx according to the parts manual and the first thing he is going to ask you is what the serial number is. He has a record of what groups of serial numbers were built where and that number will determine if you actually get widget #xxx-xxxx-xxxxx or you have to buy a whole new sub assembly, which is part # xcx-xcx-xxccc because your tool was built with supplier #65's parts on such and such a day and supplier #65 used sub standard parts in their sub-assemblies and your tool manufacturer didn't catch that glitch until after 4 months of production was shipped out the door. Are they going to recall all of those tools with sub assemblies made by supplier #65? Not usually, unless the part issue is a life and death situation. No, they are going to wait until the unit fails and then sell you a whole new sub assembly made by supplier #66, which used better made parts.

If you only use a tool once in a great while, it is probably safe to buy the cheaper one and yes, it will usually last many years based off of the frequency it was used. If you use the tool every single day, it would be wiser to purchase tools from a known reputable dealer, not a big box store. But, it is your money.

Very good info!
I had heard about the same model number with serial numbers denoting the cheaper products many years ago but had forgotten it until I read your post.

Pops15 · Oct 26, 2012

EddieWalker said:
I doubt that I use my tools as hard as some of you guys do, or that I spend as much time building stuff as some of you, so my opinion is just based on my experiences. I buy tools and materials from Home Depot, Lowes and McCoys. I also go to three plumbing suppliers and two electrical suppliers for guys in the trades. I friends with some of the guys who work at the stores, and think they are pretty upfront with me. If they know of a better deal or product, they let me know where to go. They don't get that sale from me, but they get my business long term trust.

My first question is what brand of tools are you buying? and where are you supposedly getting a better version of that tool? With power tools, I'm a huge Makita fan, but also like Bosch. I try other brands from time to time, and usually know that when buying it, I'm wasting my money long term, but I need it right away to get something done and it should work long enough for that. DeWalt is a brand that has everything, anywhere you go. It doesn't last very long, but it's affordable and for a little bit, does a good job.

So if I wanted to buy a circular saw, and I like Bosch or Makita, where would I go to get a better version then what they sell at Home Depot or Lowes?

Another example is the new Hitachi framing gun that I bought last week. I looked online, read tons of reviews and went for this model at Lowes. Nowhere did I see it cheaper online, and of the three box stores that I shop at, Lowes had the best price. If it fails on me, I know that I can return it for what I paid for it without any hassle at Lowes. What could be better then that?

As for faucets coming from a supplier over the box store being better, I say that's BS. Moen, Kohler, PF, Delta and whatever big name brand out there are all making disposable junk with fancy finishes that you pay more for. They mass produce them in other countries and have people to call 24/7 to get replacements that fail out of the package. It's happened enough times for me to be almost common. The only difference you get at teh supply house is the guy selling it to you knows it's junk, and the guy at Home Depot telling you it's quality.

I've never come across a mom and pop store that failed because of the box store opening up. In every case, they fail because of poor service and bad attitudes. The ones that are doing well are doing so because of the service they provide.

Eddie

I'm not buying many tools any more. The majority of my power tools are Milwaukee. The oldest being a sawzall I bought in 1978 and the newest being a 10 1/4" circular saw that's probably close to ten years old. Of the 17 or so Milwaukee power tools I own one has failed. I think three more have needed new switches or cords over the years. Since I'm a contractor these are all worked, they're not for show.
I've heard that Milwaukee's quality has gone down in recent years but I don't have any first hand knowledge of that.

Makita is a rare example of a company that makes a better product now than they did in the past.
Bosch is another that makes a quality product.

Believe it or not, some manufacturers make a cheaper product for the box stores. I have seen it first hand. Plus I have family members that are/were in management with box stores and a manufacturer that have verified this.

The box stores have made it hard for the mom & pop shops but the ones they've really hurt are the regional chains.

Code54 · Oct 26, 2012

When I was reading everything in this thread about how the plumbing stuff does not last as long, I had to smile. Heck, in our house, my wife is going to want me to remodel the bathroom or update the sink in 8 or 10 years anyway so if it lasts that long I guess we are good with it. Also we always go to Home Depot because it is close and open when I am not working and so far I have never had any issues with any of fixtures we got there. I added a bathroom for our kids (when they were 5, now they are 12) and even that has held up great and I am sure they are harder on stuff than most adults.....

Natureboy · Oct 26, 2012

WilliamBos said:
Truth. Companies like home depot pull a Walmart and dictate the prices to the tool companies. So they are forced to build a cheaper model to recover a profit. That is why I refuse to shop at box stores.

Would not buy a high $ item at a box store, I agree that they are not made to the same standard. Case in point, I bought a Husqvarna lawn tractor from a Husqvarna dealer. Used it once, both front tires were flat when I went to use it the second time. Dealer tubed both tires-no charge. After about 30 hours, the transmission bolts broke-dealer picked it up, repaired with grade 8 bolts (Husq. used grade 2's), delivered it back to me-no charge. What do you think would have happened if I had bought it at Lowes or TSC? SOL!