BIG ooop's

   / BIG ooop's #1  

the6shooter

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
455
Location
oklahoma
Tractor
MF 1643
hey guy's, have a question, I was out mowing on a utilities ditch, walked the ditch, everything looked clear found water meter ,phone, no gas meter.
ok started mowing and lo and behold a gas pipe 1/2 inch pipe sticking up 8 inches high. called fire department the came out put a plug in the pipe, 2 hrs later, gas company shows up, and said wow this line should have been killed off. the scan the area and kill the line off across the street. and said it was thier falt. the man said that when the have a building that is total electric, we kill the line and remove the pipe. well thay didn't. now I am going to get a bill for them caping the line across the street. Insureance isn't a broblem but since they said it was their falt, souldn't it be their problem ???
tanks david
 
   / BIG ooop's #2  
I would demand that they show me how I'm responisble. Here in Texas the utilities are in hot water because they have not taken care of their responsibilities.

Tell them to charge it to the dust and let the rain setttle it.
 
   / BIG ooop's #3  
You didn't mention what damage, if any, occured to your tractor. If your total electric what will they do, shut off your gas? I'd fight it and talk to the highest person I could reach since they admitted it was their fault. Never hurts to try.
 
   / BIG ooop's #4  
DId you say the fire department capped it? Do they bill out for their services? I'm a firefighter and I know we don't. Sounds like a good idea though. Maybe the idiots that are 80% of our calls would call someone besides 911 if they knew they were going to be billed. That way we would be able to get to real calls faster.

Oh, who am I kidding? That 80% would still call and the bill would be sent to the state. Tax payers rarely call us anyway, even if they should.
 
   / BIG ooop's #5  
Call your Public Service Commission (PSC) and complain. That's a state agency that governs public utilities. I complained to them once, as did my brother-in-law, and we both had quick and positive responses. I can't imagine how a hidden but vulnerable live gas line in the middle of nowhere would be "legal". I think you have an excellent chance of voiding the bill without using a lawyer. Don't let yourself be bullied.

Don't pay that bill until you've exhausted all possibilities.
 
   / BIG ooop's
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Sorry guy's I didn't say: the tractor and mower are fine, no fires the blade just clipped the tip of the gas line. Lucky for me there wasn't a spark. Yes I did call 911, I had the address. the fire department just installed a compression plug in the end of the pipe. then the gas company killed the line from across the street. when it happend I heard a hiss, and looked back and seen the tip of the pipe. All I could think about was getting into high gear and hauling a**
thanks, david
 
   / BIG ooop's
  • Thread Starter
#7  
ccsial, the place was at a grain storage lot, the previous building had gas, the new building is total elec. the gas company was supposed o kill the line when they took the meeter out. and anything abouve ground was _supposed_ to be removed.
thanks david
 
   / BIG ooop's #8  
First, the main thing is nobody got hurt! Did they say they where going to bill you? Or are you assumming they are going to bill you? I'd be really surprised if they did bill you. You may have actually saved someone life. ie county roads maintainence grass cutter. If you get a bill have your homeowners ins. blow them off.
Now go spend some quality time with your tractor, you could've lost her today!!
 
   / BIG ooop's #9  
I'm dealing with a gas and electric company right now over a gas line that was hit by a backhoe on one of our jobs. We called BUD (before U dig) and had "all" the utilities marked. Gas line was located. It was shown several feet from where it was hit. Come to find out, the line was hit once before, and a new line was run parallel to the old one, then the old line was abandon. The OLD LINE was the one marked. We hit the new one.

Law says, (in our case) we're NOT RESPONSIBLE if we notified BUD, had lines marked, and hit something elswhere. BUD (subcontractor) is liable. If we didn't have lines marked and hit them, we're responsible. In any event, gas company takes NO responsibility. BUD claims they marked everything shown on site map. Gas company claims no responsibility. We claim we dug where we were told no line existed. Our insurance carrier claims we did what was required, so they don't owe anyone anything.

In the end, gas company wants to bill SOMEONE. BUD won't pay (yet) and we hit the line. Enter the lawyers.

6" plastic main. Break required shutting off gas to several homes and 3 business's. One business is a ceramics shop w/ gas fired kiln. Break shut them down for 24 hrs. They want their cut too.

Good luck. You're dealing with a public utility that has legal and financial resources that'll let them be a real thorn in your side. Right or wrong, they can wear you out. First thing, find out how much the bill is. It may be the simplest thing to just pay and forget, even if it is "their fault".
 
   / BIG ooop's #10  
Farmwithyjunk,

The key to it is as you say if you had not called it would be yours but since you did follow the requirements you have a good chance of winning.

As for the lawers we would not need them if everyone did what is right. BUD should pay up and I am sure in most cases they would here. I know we miss locate powerlines sometimes and when we do and they get cut we just fix them. and when we dig after other utilites have been located if we cut somthing miss located we refuse to pay.

Good luck and stick to your ground you are right.
 
   / BIG ooop's #11  
I work for the telephone company, 28 years, and know my way around the utility industry.

Shooter, Good thing eveything is OK.
While it's fresh, document (write down) everything, including the gas-guy who said it was their fault, put a date and time next to that quote.
Wait and see if you even get a bill. If so, then start fighting it. First mention to the gas company about whether they reported this leak to the EPA, it certainly let enough natural gas into the atmosphere to require them to report it. Ask them if it is their practice to leave a "live" gas line exposed above ground? If you have to, ask them to speak with their legal department. Their legal department will look at it, and tell the gas-flunkies to shut-up, mind their business, and NOT bill you, for threat of a court case.

FarmWithJunk,

It might vary from state to state, but the markings are good 3 feet either side of the line. This means, if digging within 3 feet of the mark they made, you must show caution, including digging test holes by hand, before using any powered equipment. You probably already are aware of this.
This fight is going to be between the Gas Co. and BUD. BUD is saying they marked what was on their reference material (microfilm). This material is supplied by the utility, in this case the Gas Co. So, I can tell you of 2 possible scenarios that typically occur:
1. Gas Co supplied BUD contractor with proper microfilm reference, they never filed it properly, and used the older version.
2. Since a repair was done, the Gas Co never updated their records, so BUD, using records on hand, marked what they had record of.

Number 2. is the highly likely scenario in this case. So it comes back to the Gas Co. as the ones who goofed. The ceramic business is probably SOL. Public Utilities cannot be billed for lost business such as this without finding them grossly negligent.
Even if their records were not corrected, that is NOT gross negligence.

With the advent of digital cameras and camera-phones, I would suggest to anyone digging where lines have been marked, take a digi-photo of the lines.
If possible, preserve the lines, as you are digging elsewhere. if you are digging within 10 feet or so, of the lines, take a photo of the lines, with your piece of equipment engaging the ground, showing it's beyond the 3 foot limit, or whatever the rule happens to be in your locale.

In FarmWithJunk's case, I'd look at the gas Co representative, with a straightface, and say "I called, the lines were marked. Are you saying I knowingly risked my life and property to dig on top of a Live gas main??"

It would be different if you were digging right over the mark, being careful, and nicked the line with a backhoe tooth, that kind of thing happens everyday, the contractor is usually more than happy to help them expose and repair the line, a bill is rarely issued in those types of cases.

Lastly, high pressure Metal gas pipes can ignite themselves, due to the friction created by the gas rushing out of the tip. Fortunately, they burn like a big-ole blow torch, not like a bomb. Still dangerous.
Service lines, coming off of a high pressure main, to houses, are regulated down to a lower psi, so the chances of them igniting on their own is less.

*Always call before you dig.
*Always take a digi-photo of the marks.
*When digging within 3 feet of a mark, dig test holes by hand.
 
   / BIG ooop's #12  
and DONT forget to take pictures of the test holes and shovel...

ALWAYS record statements made where possible...
 
   / BIG ooop's #13  
The gas distribution line across my land is currently being replaced. They aren't done yet, but the new line is a 12 or 14 inch plastic about 5 feet from the old one. It will be interesting to see where the put the markers. So far things have been going well, but the backfilling has left a lot of broken rock on the surface along a 50 foot wide x 250 yard long strip of former grass, which might justify buying a landscape rake to clean it up, depending on how and when they seed it. They pretty much tore everything up with the trackhoe, two backhoes and a couple of trucks running around on the hillside.

Around here, lines have a conductor laid in the trench with the pipe with the ends of the wire sticking out of the ground every now and then in a marked location. Anyone about to dig can locate the line exactly by running a current through the wire and picking up the resulting signal with a meter.
 
   / BIG ooop's #14  
the6shooter said:
1* now I am going to get a bill for them caping the line across the street. 2*since they said it was their falt, souldn't it be their problem ???
tanks david
***************
***********
1* on what grounds?
2* Who elses would it be?
What does it have to do with you any way?
Are you the land owner? :confused:
 

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