banjobj
Gold Member
Thanks /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
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bio-diesel
- Thread starter JBX
- Start date
- Views: 3384
I know this thread has been dead awhile, but I bought and ran 100% Soy Bio-diesel today for the first time, and wanted to share my observations without starting a new thread. I purchased it from a Shell station two miles down the road at a regular pump. It cost $2.59/gallon. On the pump it said that it wasn't recommeded for diesels made prior to 1985. I'm not sure what has changed since 1985. The station also sells regular diesel at a different pump, so I might mix both types in the future to reduce costs.
My observations:
1. The exhaust smells better, but I keep thinking that french fry oil is too hot.
2. The exhaust appears to be cleaner.
3. I didn't notice any difference in the engine operation.
I am wondering if I use a 50/50 mix, will anti-gelling additives be effective?
My observations:
1. The exhaust smells better, but I keep thinking that french fry oil is too hot.
2. The exhaust appears to be cleaner.
3. I didn't notice any difference in the engine operation.
I am wondering if I use a 50/50 mix, will anti-gelling additives be effective?
cstocks
Platinum Member
$2.59 a gallon seems pretty steep to me. I hope you find it is worth the difference in price since there was no improvement in performance.
I am afraid smelling french fries cooking all the time would have me off to lunch for a burger and fries!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
I am afraid smelling french fries cooking all the time would have me off to lunch for a burger and fries!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
JimC
Silver Member
Has any one tried to filter and blend the Peanut oil you fried your Christmas or Thanksgiving turkey in to use as fuel in your tractor?
Sure would be better than taking it to a recycle center or burning it with your yard trimmings (If you can burn in your area).
Even a low percentage 30% or so would be better than dumping $7.00 a gallon peanut oil.
JimC
Sure would be better than taking it to a recycle center or burning it with your yard trimmings (If you can burn in your area).
Even a low percentage 30% or so would be better than dumping $7.00 a gallon peanut oil.
JimC
EdDekker
Silver Member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2000
- Messages
- 192
- Location
- New Ipswich, New Hampshire
- Tractor
- Kubota B2400, Bobcat 331 Mini-Excavator
There was a thread about BioDiesel a couple of years ago. I was inspired to do a little research. So far I have not felt motivated to actually try BioDiesel or vegetable oil in my tractor.
There are two ways to use the waste vegetable oil. Mix the unprocessed oil with ordinary diesel fuel or process it into BioDiesel.
Diesel fuel is a mixture of hydrocarbons which have 11 to 13 carbon in each chain. New vegetable oil has about 18 carbons in each chain but heavily used deep fry oil may have 32 carbon atoms per chain. The Viscosity of unprocessed oil is higher than the Diesel fuel we normally use.
The vegetable oil is more viscous than diesel, especially used deep fry oil. New Canola oil is 12 times the viscosity of ordinary diesel fuel. The Canola oil can be heated and is than only 6 times as viscous at 170 degrees F.
The difference in viscosity is reduced (but not eliminated by mixing the oil with ordinary diesel fuel, or kerosine. Unless there is little used vegetable oil in the mix the result is still more viscous than the ordinary diesel the engines pump and injectors are designed to use. The mixture will gel at much higher temperature than ordinary diesel fuel and is much more subject to bacterial growth. Some users of Diesel mixed with vegetable oil modify the fuel tanks with heaters and feed heated fuel to the engine fuel pump. More elaborate systems add a second fuel tank containing ordinary diesel which is used at engine start and stop. The waste oil may be acid, the PH should be checked and the oil neutralized before using it in your engine.
Filtering your oil and adding a little (say 10%) in the summer may work in your tractor.
The links http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html and http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html describe some of the issues running vegetable oil in a diesel engine. (Note: rapeseed oil is canola oil.)
The people who make BioDiesel at home from vegetable oil border on crazy. After I looked at the process I think throwing away $7.00 per gallon oil looks cheep. The BioDiesel will need additives for cold weather operation as it may gel as warm as 40 degrees F. The cetane rating of each batch is uncertain and can not be measured with simple equipment. Some users detune diesel engines to tolerate BioDiesel with a wider range of cetane ratings but this reduces engine fuel efficiency and/or power. The BioDiesel processing includes washing the salts and soaps from the BioDiesel. If the Diesel is insufficiently washed the salts and soaps can damage the engine.
The process to make BioDiesel is transesterification. Lye and methanol are mixed creating Sodium Methoxide. Sodium Methoxide mixed with the oil breaks the transfatty acid (vegetable oil) into glycerine and Methyl ester chains (the BioDiesel).
The oil is filtered to remove floating food scraps. (The oil may require heat to flow through the filter.)
Titration is preformed which determines exactly how much Sodium Methoxide is needed.
The Sodium Methoxide is prepared by mixing methanol (about 20% of mass of oil) with Sodium Hydroxide (about 1% of the mass of the oil) in a blender. The reaction generates heat. (Sodium Methoxide splashed on the skin will burn painlessly after killing the nerves. It is bad stuff.)
Add the Sodium Methoxide to the oil and stir for 40 minutes.
Allow to settle. The liquid will separate, BioDiesel on top and glycerin on the bottom. Pump out the Glycerine. (The glycerin is hazardous waste).
Wash the BioDiesel to remove soaps and salts in the BioDiesel by mixing the water and the BioDiesel and than allowing it to stand and separate. The water will be the lower layer. Pump out the heaver water layer (more hazardous waste) Repeat until the wash water is clear.
Heat the BioDiesel to remove the remaining water.
If I do decide to try BioDiesel I will order it already processed from http://worldenergy.net ($227 for a 55 Gallon drum or $39 for a 5 gallon pail delivered) Even $8 a gallon sounds better than making it (and paying a hazardous waste site to take the glycerine and wash water).
For more information see
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html
http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/
http://www.veggievan.org/biodiesel/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel
There are two ways to use the waste vegetable oil. Mix the unprocessed oil with ordinary diesel fuel or process it into BioDiesel.
Diesel fuel is a mixture of hydrocarbons which have 11 to 13 carbon in each chain. New vegetable oil has about 18 carbons in each chain but heavily used deep fry oil may have 32 carbon atoms per chain. The Viscosity of unprocessed oil is higher than the Diesel fuel we normally use.
The vegetable oil is more viscous than diesel, especially used deep fry oil. New Canola oil is 12 times the viscosity of ordinary diesel fuel. The Canola oil can be heated and is than only 6 times as viscous at 170 degrees F.
The difference in viscosity is reduced (but not eliminated by mixing the oil with ordinary diesel fuel, or kerosine. Unless there is little used vegetable oil in the mix the result is still more viscous than the ordinary diesel the engines pump and injectors are designed to use. The mixture will gel at much higher temperature than ordinary diesel fuel and is much more subject to bacterial growth. Some users of Diesel mixed with vegetable oil modify the fuel tanks with heaters and feed heated fuel to the engine fuel pump. More elaborate systems add a second fuel tank containing ordinary diesel which is used at engine start and stop. The waste oil may be acid, the PH should be checked and the oil neutralized before using it in your engine.
Filtering your oil and adding a little (say 10%) in the summer may work in your tractor.
The links http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html and http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html describe some of the issues running vegetable oil in a diesel engine. (Note: rapeseed oil is canola oil.)
The people who make BioDiesel at home from vegetable oil border on crazy. After I looked at the process I think throwing away $7.00 per gallon oil looks cheep. The BioDiesel will need additives for cold weather operation as it may gel as warm as 40 degrees F. The cetane rating of each batch is uncertain and can not be measured with simple equipment. Some users detune diesel engines to tolerate BioDiesel with a wider range of cetane ratings but this reduces engine fuel efficiency and/or power. The BioDiesel processing includes washing the salts and soaps from the BioDiesel. If the Diesel is insufficiently washed the salts and soaps can damage the engine.
The process to make BioDiesel is transesterification. Lye and methanol are mixed creating Sodium Methoxide. Sodium Methoxide mixed with the oil breaks the transfatty acid (vegetable oil) into glycerine and Methyl ester chains (the BioDiesel).
The oil is filtered to remove floating food scraps. (The oil may require heat to flow through the filter.)
Titration is preformed which determines exactly how much Sodium Methoxide is needed.
The Sodium Methoxide is prepared by mixing methanol (about 20% of mass of oil) with Sodium Hydroxide (about 1% of the mass of the oil) in a blender. The reaction generates heat. (Sodium Methoxide splashed on the skin will burn painlessly after killing the nerves. It is bad stuff.)
Add the Sodium Methoxide to the oil and stir for 40 minutes.
Allow to settle. The liquid will separate, BioDiesel on top and glycerin on the bottom. Pump out the Glycerine. (The glycerin is hazardous waste).
Wash the BioDiesel to remove soaps and salts in the BioDiesel by mixing the water and the BioDiesel and than allowing it to stand and separate. The water will be the lower layer. Pump out the heaver water layer (more hazardous waste) Repeat until the wash water is clear.
Heat the BioDiesel to remove the remaining water.
If I do decide to try BioDiesel I will order it already processed from http://worldenergy.net ($227 for a 55 Gallon drum or $39 for a 5 gallon pail delivered) Even $8 a gallon sounds better than making it (and paying a hazardous waste site to take the glycerine and wash water).
For more information see
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html
http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/
http://www.veggievan.org/biodiesel/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel
JimC
Silver Member
Thanks Ed, I have looked several times for bio-diesel information and never got any real usable information.
I guess I was impressed wih the guy running his VW on used french fry oil (TV news).
They had a lot of problems with Mexican diesel plugging the fuel filters in VW's in the 80's (I was living in Port Isabel TX at the time) and the winter Texans would cross the border and fill up with 19 cent diesel and then have to pay a lot of US dollars to change the filter located in the fuel tank, Maybe the mexicans were recycling their used cooking oil.
Thanks again, I will dispose of my used oil and continue to use good diesel from the local Wal-Mart.
jim C
I guess I was impressed wih the guy running his VW on used french fry oil (TV news).
They had a lot of problems with Mexican diesel plugging the fuel filters in VW's in the 80's (I was living in Port Isabel TX at the time) and the winter Texans would cross the border and fill up with 19 cent diesel and then have to pay a lot of US dollars to change the filter located in the fuel tank, Maybe the mexicans were recycling their used cooking oil.
Thanks again, I will dispose of my used oil and continue to use good diesel from the local Wal-Mart.
jim C
cowboydoc
Super Member
- Joined
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Remember though there is a huge difference between refined biodiesel and recycled vegetable oil. I would not even consider used vegetable oil but refined pure biodiesel is totally different.
JimC
Silver Member
Thanks Richard,
I understand the differance and if they ever get the price down to a reasonable figure, I would be glad to go the bio-diesel way.
I always wondered why there was so much opposition to the grain alcohol additive to gasoline.
I guess the oil companies are not too interested to grain and vegetable fuel or fuel additivies.
I understand the differance and if they ever get the price down to a reasonable figure, I would be glad to go the bio-diesel way.
I always wondered why there was so much opposition to the grain alcohol additive to gasoline.
I guess the oil companies are not too interested to grain and vegetable fuel or fuel additivies.
