Oil & Fuel Bleeding the fuel system on a Kioti

[mh2]

Hi
I have a Kioti CK 20 HST which has been a workhorse for 5 years. Today when my wife went to use it for some gardening chores the engine would start, run for a few seconds and then die. It sounded like a fuel supply issue. So I worked my way down the fuel system... tank was half full, filter was reasonably clean. Got to the fuel pump where my owner's manual says there is an air vent cock, but for the life of me I can't find it! I ended up opening the nuts where the fuel lines go to the cylinders to make sure fuel was flowing when the engine was turning over, but I could only open the first and third ones. The middle one is positioned so close to the other two that I couldn't get a wrench on with enough purchase to grab the nut. I will openly admit that I am not that much of a mechanic, so I thought I would ask y'all as the knowledge that some of you on TBN have just blows me away. Is there an air vent cock on the fuel pump system on Kiotis and if so where is the darn thing ( a picture would be great!), and is there some other way to test that enough fuel is getting to the cylinders?
Thanks!
Mark

 

[Ranchofla]

Hi
I have a Kioti CK 20 HST which has been a workhorse for 5 years. Today when my wife went to use it for some gardening chores the engine would start, run for a few seconds and then die. It sounded like a fuel supply issue. So I worked my way down the fuel system... tank was half full, filter was reasonably clean. Got to the fuel pump where my owner's manual says there is an air vent cock, but for the life of me I can't find it! I ended up opening the nuts where the fuel lines go to the cylinders to make sure fuel was flowing when the engine was turning over, but I could only open the first and third ones. The middle one is positioned so close to the other two that I couldn't get a wrench on with enough purchase to grab the nut. I will openly admit that I am not that much of a mechanic, so I thought I would ask y'all as the knowledge that some of you on TBN have just blows me away. Is there an air vent cock on the fuel pump system on Kiotis and if so where is the darn thing ( a picture would be great!), and is there some other way to test that enough fuel is getting to the cylinders?
Thanks!
Mark

Mark

Sounds like you have a clogged fuel filter, I seen those symptoms on my CK20. Have you changed the filter before?

Rancho

 

[mh2]

Hi Rancho
I am going to, so that is why I wanted to know about bleeding the air that will enter the line when I do that. How do you do it?
thanks!
Mark

 

[DieselBound]

If you have air in the fuel lines all of a sudden then I'd have to think that this is but a secondary problem.

Check for fuel blockages. Remove the line to fuel filter on the fuel tank side and see if there are any obstructions: if you have a vacuum pump it would be instructive to first attempt to pull fuel, this is the same thing your fuel pump (IP) is doing; otherwise you can use some compressed air (not too much pressure!) and block back through the line, though with this you may not actually be able to tell if you dislodged something (maybe you'll sense the relief if there's a firm blockage, but if something is just resting flush with the outlet's hole it may just kind of drift away).

Is it freezing up there yet? I've had an instance in which an ice pellet formed (water, ugh!) in the tank's outlet nipple!

I've also had fuel lines pinched closed by chunks of stuff lodging in the tractor's underside.

Cracks in fuel lines (tank to filter, then filter to IP) will ingest air, making starting a bear.

 

[jabelding]

The air vent cock is on the fuel filter housing there are 3 positions on the filter valve- off, air, and on. A quick tip, you usually need to remove the air vent hose going back to the tank on top of the filter housing to get it to bleed out the air correctly from the filter.
With that being said you wont have air in the system unless you change a filter or have a hole in a line or run the tank out. Sounds like you have a blockage at the tank outlet. To check remove your fuel filter and put a catch pan under the housing and turn the filter back on it should flow pretty good from the tank. If that is good your filter is plugged or your secondary pump is bad.

 

[mh2]

Thanks DieselBound
I 'll check the lines again.
No winter hasn't started here yet. We are getting the tail end of Nate and will get 2 to 3 inches of rain today.
Mark

 

[mh2]

Hi Jabelding
On mine there are only two positions on the cock on the fuel filter - open and closed. There is another line going back to the tank but it comes come from the engine somewhere, not the filter. I can trace that line under the chassis forward to the engine but then I lose it, and I can't see its origin anywhere on the engine. I suspect it is some kind of bleeding line. I wish I could get my hands on a parts and service manual, but Kioti doesn't seem to want to share them.
Thanks!
Mark

 

[DieselBound]

Hi Jabelding
On mine there are only two positions on the cock on the fuel filter - open and closed. There is another line going back to the tank but it comes come from the engine somewhere, not the filter. I can trace that line under the chassis forward to the engine but then I lose it, and I can't see its origin anywhere on the engine. I suspect it is some kind of bleeding line. I wish I could get my hands on a parts and service manual, but Kioti doesn't seem to want to share them.
Thanks!
Mark

I suspect that that line might be the fuel return line coming back/off the injectors. If you don't have another line going to your fuel filter that this would be it. NOTE: can't say how it goes in tractor-land, but in the automotive side of things manufacturers Tee fuel returns back into the fuel filter (the Tee goes into the filter and a line runs back to the tank) so that when it's cold warm fuel is run back through the filter (assist with gelling issues, as well as making combustion a bit easier when the engine is cold).

 

[mh2]

Hi Dieselbound
You are absolutely right! Once I got a better light source so I could see what I was doing, and got good and dirty lying on my back underneath the engine I was able to find where that line starts. Just as you said it takes surplus fuel from the injectors and runs it back to the tank. I spoke to the dealer who is a real stand up guy - one of the reasons I bought the Kioti in the first place. He thinks it is a problem with the electrical side of the fuel pump system and has picked the tractor up to check it out. He also said that the line in the owner's manual about an air vent cock on the fuel pump is wrong. Just like Jabelding wrote earlier, he just de-airs at the filter if he changes it or cleans it.
Thanks to all for your input!
Mark

 

[KanakaRick]

Hi gang... have kind of the same question, but with a photo. 2003 DK50C, the Owner's Manual shows loosening up the round thing at the lower right to bleed the fuel. But the fuel filter does have the "air" position. Does this mean in order for me to bleed the air out of the fuel filter bowl, I just turn the pit-cock to the air setting and the air will automatically bleed out? I have no clue about these things, and the manual is very vague. Also I need to replace the fuel pipes as I don't think they have ever been replaced. Who would you suggest I go to order this stuff for an '03? I am a bit disappointed with the local vendor as they sold me a bunch of parts that don't fit and it took forever for them to show up. Now I have to send it all back. I needed pins and zerk fittings and they didn't even check to see if the zerks fit in the pins (they didn't) and the pins were the wrong size. I need to get this stuff here muy pronto, as the snow is showing up at the end of the week and I'd much rather work on it in above freezing weather. . Also I'd like to know how to bleed the fuel pipe if I replace that too. Again the manual is very vague.

 

[DieselBound]

KanakaRick, I'd figure that turning to "Air" would do the trick. However, if your fuel bowl is full then I'm not sure that would do much for you, especially if you've sucked air into the pump. Pretty easy to just crack an injector line (put a rag in the area to catch fuel*) and then crank (intermittently) until you get a good stream of fuel coming out (by which time the engine should fire up- and run like crap until you tighten the injector line back up).

* You should be able to get any diesel-rated fuel line. Take off a hose and use it to spec replacement. You'll need to snake any new line through that hose protector (spiral metal). AND, don't allow fuel is seep on to other hoses- always wash fuel off otherwise it'll eat those other hoses.

Don't talk to me about zerks! I had a bad zerk day! (needed to replace a zerk and I have no metric ones!)

 

[KanakaRick]

KanakaRick, AND, don't allow fuel is seep on to other hoses- always wash fuel off otherwise it'll eat those other hoses.
)

Good to know because I need to replace the fuel filter and right now there is fuel leaking out of the fuel bowl, right around the rim of it. I didn't want to take it apart before I knew exactly how to
put it back together. So, let me get this straight... use the "air setting" or loosen the nuts at the injectors to burp it? What about that round thing in the lower right of the picture- is the "air vent cock" noted in the manual the same thing that is in my photo? Is there an adjustment on my machine other than at the valve and at the injectors? Or is the round thing on my machine something different?

 

[DieselBound]

I have no idea what the petcock is doing there, but I'll guess. I "suspect" that one turns it "Off" to remove the fuel bowl (and then change the filter) and then turns it to "Air" when the fuel bowl is back on and turns it to "On" when fuels starts to come out ("Air" position results in fuel coming into the bowl and pushing air, and eventually fuel, out some vent port).

If you didn't get air into the injection pump then you shouldn't have an issue. But, IF you did then cracking an injector would be the way to help purge any such air.

 

[KanakaRick]

Any idea what the round thing is downstream from the filter? Is that a fuel pump or ????

 

[DieselBound]

Might be associated with fuel return lines?

 

[mh2]

Hi KanakaRick
You are right that is the fuel pump. On my Kioti the manual says there is an air vent on it, but there is not.
Mark

 

[KanakaRick]

Hi KanakaRick
You are right that is the fuel pump. On my Kioti the manual says there is an air vent on it, but there is not.
Mark

Thanks Mark. Appreciate that. So I guess I bleed by the air pitcock and by loostening up the nuts on the injectors. My tractor is just turning 1000 hours. It runs good, should I add any injector cleaner to the fuel?

 

[mh2]

Hi KanakaRick
Don't know enough about them to have an opinion worth anything. However, the collective knowledge on the forum blows me away. Perhaps one of our more knowledgeable posters can weigh in on the value of fuel additives, injector cleaners etc???
m

 

[o2batsea]

It runs good, should I add any injector cleaner to the fuel?

Oh
my
Gawd
not
againnnnn!!!!

 

[k0ua]

Here is a little trick Kioti lovers. This is how I change fuel filter without ever bleeding the system or even turning to the air position.l
Here are the steps:

Clean around the fuel filter and valve assembly. GOOD and clean. and turn the fuel valve to OFF

Unscrew the ring slightly and prepare a clean "tupperware" bowl, or "glad" food saving container or some clean bowl like container. Very clean
Now take this container over to the fuel bowl and hold it under it and continue to unscrew the ring with the other hand.

Let the fuel bowl and dirty filter drop into the bowl. There will be spilled fuel, but it is all caught in your bowl. No mess.

Now take out the messy filter and lay it beside the fuel bowl. All of this is still contained by your bowl.

Be mindful of the spring on the bottom of the filter and check for the O ring on the neck that goes in the filter is still there.

Put in your new filter with the spring on the bottom, and then carefully fill the assembly with new diesel fuel. I use an old injector cleaner bottle full of clean diesel.

Then carefully raise the bowl up and let it overflow into your catch bowl.

Carefully tighten the ring and wipe off the fuel bowl and turn back on the petcock (valve) to ON

Fire up your engine, and it should purr like a kitten, NO stuttering, no bleeding, no nothing.

Empty the remaining dirty diesel into your "used oil" can. Go on with life.