Block Heater Question???

[fuseboxer]

I am going w/o a heater in Michigan on my JD4410 but plan to have alternatives if super cold. Usually if zero or below we get very little snow. But if it should happen I could plug in a ceramic heater and point it up from down under the tractor with a old blanket over the hood. I do not believe it will be necessary. I could convince my wife that it is an emergency and park in her spot in the garage attached to the house, it stays warm. That might put me in the dog house or the barn for awhile and I could sleep with my tractor! The barn has beds and wood stove but in the cold it would be miserable.

 

[Henri88]

''That might put me in the dog house or the barn for awhile and I could sleep with my tractor! The barn has beds and wood stove but in the cold it would be miserable.''

Well, there you go, use the ceramic heather and the blanket to warm you up.:laughing:

 

[RoyJackson]

But if it should happen I could plug in a ceramic heater and point it up from down under the tractor with a old blanket over the hood. I do not believe it will be necessary.

Back in 1968 when I was working as a plumber's helper (fresh out of high school), I worked at a site that is now Columbia, MD.
There were a number of diesel powered vehicles (dozers, backhoes, etc.) and frequently there would be a torpedo heater or even a small fire under the machine to get it warm enough to start.
The backhoe (a Ford) I ran had a provision on the dash to inject ether, but I don't recommend that with your Deere.

 

[classic]

this one isn't the magnetic type, it uses adhesive to adhere to the pan.. I have used a similar style heater as this wolverene on my satellite dish for about 4 years. it had always worked wonderfully....no snow on the dish. This thing gets too hot to touch in about 5 seconds after plugging it in. it sticks to the pan and is heat siliconed along the outside so its about the thickness of 8-10 sheets of notebook paper.

I too have tried the magnetic ones..they suck. I have one on my generator for the past 10 years, and it is still working, but that oil pan only holds 1-1/2 quarts of oil..... using one of them for a tractor engine would be a waste of electricity indeed.

Tell us more about heating the satelite dish.I've been fighting for years with that dam thing. Does it heat the whole dish or just where it's stuck?f

 

[Pipestone Kid]

Condensation inside the engine...specifically the oil pan and maybe the crank journals.
Foggy has a good question, actually...

Roy, think about that for a minute. Have you ever seen condensation form on a warm object entering cold air? (i.e. Your glasses when you go from a warm house into the cold--not the reverse) Plus the fact you would have to have moist air in the engine. Possible, I suppose, but not very probable.

 

[grsthegreat]

Tell us more about heating the satelite dish.I've been fighting for years with that dam thing. Does it heat the whole dish or just where it's stuck?f

My dish is metal, and it melts all the snow. Sometimes some snow accumulates on the arm, but that usually falls off. I used the Ice Zapper dish heater, and it has worked great over the years.

http://www.montanasatellitesupply.com/


My old direcway dish had the Hot Shot system that included the LNB arm heater. It also worked great. My new microwave dish doesnt collect snow as it points slightly down.

 

[greg_g]

I wanted to get a circulating water type heater like i had on my old truck, but the Kioti's lower radiator hose was already cut and had a "T" installed for the cab heater, and there was no place to add the heater.

You don't put a tank heater on a radiator hose, it's installed inline on one of the heater hoses. A circulating tank heater moves the coolant as it heats it. And because the thermostat is closed, that means this coolant movement will be in a loop through the engine block (and heater core if you've got the valve open) - by way of the bypass hose. Whatever's in your radiator will stay cold.

I just haven't had time yet to figure out which of the two heater hoses on my John Deere is the appropriate one to cut for the tank heater installation.

//greg//

 

[RoyJackson]

Roy, think about that for a minute. Have you ever seen condensation form on a warm object entering cold air? (i.e. Your glasses when you go from a warm house into the cold--not the reverse) Plus the fact you would have to have moist air in the engine. Possible, I suppose, but not very probable.

It's as the engine is cooling...that's when condensation develops.
It's one thing to pre-heat an engine, then run it for a period of time which would remove any condensation as it runs. But just to warm it up then shut it down...doesn't evaporate any moisture. That can be tough on exhaust systems too, BTW
BTW, my glasses fog up when coming inside, not going out...real PITA sometimes.

 

[Pipestone Kid]

It's as the engine is cooling...that's when condensation develops.
It's one thing to pre-heat an engine, then run it for a period of time which would remove any condensation as it runs. But just to warm it up then shut it down...doesn't evaporate any moisture. That can be tough on exhaust systems too, BTW
BTW, my glasses fog up when coming inside, not going out...real PITA sometimes.

I agree with everything you said, but if you are just warming it up with a frost plug heater, wouldn't you be warming (and later cooling) the air inside the engine at the same time? You need a difference in temp for condensation to form. BTW My point on the glasses (poorly written) is that when you go from warm to cold you get no fogging (condensation), but when you go from cold to warm moist air you do.
P.S.I dont think a preheater on a timer is going to have much effect on exhaust systems.

 

[RoyJackson]

I agree with everything you said, but if you are just warming it up with a frost plug heater, wouldn't you be warming (and later cooling) the air inside the engine at the same time? You need a difference in temp for condensation to form. BTW My point on the glasses (poorly written) is that when you go from warm to cold you get no fogging (condensation), but when you go from cold to warm moist air you do.
P.S.I dont think a preheater on a timer is going to have much effect on exhaust systems.

The exhaust system comment wasn't really related to the topic...just an aside. More on that in a bit...
Warming up the air releases moisture...as the environment cool, that moisture condenses...normally on a surface.
I don't use a block heater on my tractor, although I did on an old Chevy pickup years ago (the old 6.2 liter diesel). Always ran the truck after using the heater, so this doesn't aply to Foggy's question, exactly.

Now, back to exhaust systems...although a bit off topic. Some folks, including me, would let their vehicles idle for a period of time...just to warm them up (no intention of actually going anywhere) or keep the battery charged.
All that moisture produced by the engine heating would end up in the exhaust system. As long as one ran their vehicle long enough, or drove 5-10 miles, no problem...the moisture would be dissipated by the heat.
But a relatively short run or idle time would not dissipate the moisture...caused premature rusting in the exhaust systems. As a lot of newer systems are aluminized steel or even stainless steels, this isn't the problem it was in the 60's, 70's and 80's.
I haven't idled a vehicle in years, just to warm it up...nor do I start my tractor unless there is a need for usage. I wouldn't use a block heater either (if I had one now) just to heat the engine either. But a lot of folks did...maybe still do.
Now, for me, it's idle for 5 minutes or so, then drive with no load until everything is warmed up.

 

[foggy1111]

The question I posed was hypothetical.....and I have no experience to substantiate. But....when its really cold and you repeatably warm that engine.....I gotta beleive that as the heat is turned off you are going to draw some moisture to the cooling surfaces (like the cylinder walls).

Do that repeatably for a few weeks.....and it could pose problems? This would be the "real" situation for me and how I use my tractor up at my deer land. VERY infrequently. In my case it likely would be better to plug it in an hour or so before I need to use it.....allthough I would like to use the timer set-up.

Perhaps those surfaces dont get warm enough with a block heater?.....but when you get super cold temps (like -20 / -30) moisture forms quickly. I really dont know the answers....but it's something to consider.

 

[grsthegreat]

well i guess thats possible, but the same could be said for starting the tractor. It also warms it all up. Not sure though. Like i said i did this to my old JD for 14 winters without an issue.

 

[wolc123]

On my 4120, I use the block-heater for around 1/2 hour when it is below 50 deg F and at least an hour when it is below 32. I have never left it plugged in more than 3 hours. That engine does start without the heater, but it really sounds bad for several minutes when it is real cold. Bad sound means more wear occurring inside the engine. Seeing how I expect to own this tractor a long time, the only time I start it cold without using the block-heater is in an emergency of some kind. With the block-heater use, as described, it actually sounds smoother starting in the dead of winter as it does in mid-summer. That has got to add considerable time to the engine's life.

 

[JB4310]

On my 4120, I use the block-heater for around 1/2 hour when it is below 50 deg F and at least an hour when it is below 32. I have never left it plugged in more than 3 hours. That engine does start without the heater, but it really sounds bad for several minutes when it is real cold. Bad sound means more wear occurring inside the engine. Seeing how I expect to own this tractor a long time, the only time I start it cold without using the block-heater is in an emergency of some kind. With the block-heater use, as described, it actually sounds smoother starting in the dead of winter as it does in mid-summer. That has got to add considerable time to the engine's life.

I'm sure it could, and I agree it is good to use the block heater even if the tractor will start without it.

But 50 degrees? That's balmy around here

I only consider plugging in mine below 20 degrees. even with cold starts I don't notice much different sound during warm up.

JB

 

[smalltown]

I am certailnly no mechanic, but I have to agree with wolc123 in the sense that most engine wear happens on start up especially in cold conditions. My 2520 has the direct injection and I imagine it would start all winter without a block heater. I just imagine it would be less engine wear over the long term with a block heater.

 

[wolc123]

If you are going to update every few years, it aint going to make much difference for you. If you plan on 40 years or more out of your tractor like I do, you might want to make a little more use out of your block heater.

 

[Gobblin Tom]

I am going w/o a heater in Michigan on my JD4410 but plan to have alternatives if super cold. Usually if zero or below we get very little snow. But if it should happen I could plug in a ceramic heater and point it up from down under the tractor with a old blanket over the hood. I do not believe it will be necessary. I could convince my wife that it is an emergency and park in her spot in the garage attached to the house, it stays warm. That might put me in the dog house or the barn for awhile and I could sleep with my tractor! The barn has beds and wood stove but in the cold it would be miserable.

That's funny my truck sits in a stall, my quad and mower deck sits in the middle stall and the 2520 sits in the 3rd stall. My wifes car sits outside.....

 

[grsthegreat]

I have a neighbor that INSISTS that plugging in his tractor would be a waste of $$$, but he does plug in his diesel truck. He insists that its not the same thing.

 

[Gobblin Tom]

I have a neighbor that INSISTS that plugging in his tractor would be a waste of $$$, but he does plug in his diesel truck. He insists that its not the same thing.

You should tell him to join the forum and explain the difference between the two??? I'm just going to guess because one is more expensive than the other.... (Maybe)

 

[PILOON]

I wonder about the repeated use of a block heater or tranny heater on a timer in super-cold (below zero) weather.

Say for example.....if you had the heater come on for an hour each day....but never fired up the tractor over a two week period during severe cold. Would you be making moisture problems?

Just using the tractor, even if rarely, will heat up the oil and literally boil out any moisture that might accumulate.
Also to remember every time you shut down a nice film of oil remains on all internal parts, (on older engins even external parts get oiled, LOL)
I would not be concerned unless you perhaps had heater on 24/24 7 days/wk and never used the tractor for months on end.aturally your hydro bill would remind you in case you forgot.