Blown Turbos and bad injectors

   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #1  

JimR

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Messages
3,661
Location
Central Ma.
Tractor
Kioti NX4510HST
I am starting this posting to see just have many Kioti owners have ad to deal with bad turbos and bad injectors. Keep it simple so that everyone can see who is having or who has had issues. Ill start this off,

Jim R. 430 hours bad #2 injector and oil in the intake hose. Injector replaced. Told that the oil in the intake hose is normal. 686 hours blown turbo seal oil in the intake hose still.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #2  
I hope this isn't too far off-topic but with our supercharged 3800 Series II V-6 the prominent cause of seal/turbo failure was from not letting the turbo spin down before shutting off the engine. As a prevention this is to prolong seal life by allowing the bearings to cool while oil supply continues.

30 seconds idle at 1000-1200 rpm or less depending on engine type seems to work.

As for injectors, depending on location there may be a rebuilder who'll clean & certify and recommend replacement for any that are beyond help. Last I checked an outfit in Saginaw asked $45 per to rebuild with a 3-day or less turn-around.

btw, my Kioti isn't orange and does not have a turbo. Three injectors.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #3  
I hope this isn't too far off-topic but with our supercharged 3800 Series II V-6 the prominent cause of seal/turbo failure was from not letting the turbo spin down before shutting off the engine. As a prevention this is to prolong seal life by allowing the bearings to cool while oil supply continues.

30 seconds idle at 1000-1200 rpm or less depending on engine type seems to work.

As for injectors, depending on location there may be a rebuilder who'll clean & certify and recommend replacement for any that are beyond help. Last I checked an outfit in Saginaw asked $45 per to rebuild with a 3-day or less turn-around.

btw, my Kioti isn't orange and does not have a turbo. Three injectors.

Ya know what. When I was shopping for tractors I looked at the New Holland work master 35 , and it had on the dash to let it idle for a minute before shutting it down. That must of been for the turbo? I wonder if the New Holland and Kioti turbo are similar?
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #4  
Me obviously.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #5  
2016 NX4510. Bought new in Nov. 2018. Sudden regens every 2 to 3 hours at about 400 hours and eventually limp mode. Replaced one injector and went to 8 to 10 hours between regens. Noticed oil seeping from turbo hose, and subsequently took off hose to see oil was leaking from turbo. Turbo replaced at 440 hours and since getting regens further apart, now around 25 hours. Now at 505 hours and all seems OK.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #6  
2016 NX4510. Bought new in Nov. 2018. Sudden regens every 2 to 3 hours at about 400 hours and eventually limp mode. Replaced one injector and went to 8 to 10 hours between regens. Noticed oil seeping from turbo hose, and subsequently took off hose to see oil was leaking from turbo. Turbo replaced at 440 hours and since getting regens further apart, now around 25 hours. Now at 505 hours and all seems OK.

I have read in the past that really cold weather can be hard on turbo oil seals and you should always let them warm up for a couple of minutes at least before going anything over idle as well as a proper cool down. Also running the thinnest synthetic oil called for can be a big help in the winter. Running a "summer" oil and changing to a "winter" oil may cost a little more, but new turbos are not cheap either.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #7  
As far as Kioti, I have been reading about several issues with injectors, turbo's and HST transmission issues over the past couple of years on the NX series.
Just my opinion, but it mostly appears to be the NX series.
Don't recall reading about all the issues on the other models.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #8  
I have read in the past that really cold weather can be hard on turbo oil seals and you should always let them warm up for a couple of minutes at least before going anything over idle as well as a proper cool down. Also running the thinnest synthetic oil called for can be a big help in the winter. Running a "summer" oil and changing to a "winter" oil may cost a little more, but new turbos are not cheap either.

Yes, very good advice. I run 0W40 synthetic, have a block heater, and let tractor warm at idle for at least 10 minutes, and let it cool for several minutes when done my work
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #9  
I hope this isn't too far off-topic but with our supercharged 3800 Series II V-6 the prominent cause of seal/turbo failure was from not letting the turbo spin down before shutting off the engine. As a prevention this is to prolong seal life by allowing the bearings to cool while oil supply continues.

30 seconds idle at 1000-1200 rpm or less depending on engine type seems to work.

As for injectors, depending on location there may be a rebuilder who'll clean & certify and recommend replacement for any that are beyond help. Last I checked an outfit in Saginaw asked $45 per to rebuild with a 3-day or less turn-around.

btw, my Kioti isn't orange and does not have a turbo. Three injectors.

Really off base on this analogy. The 3800 is supercharged, as you already stated so there is no turbocharger to spool up and spool down. The supercharger is run off of the crank shaft while the turbos on cars are run off of the exhaust.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #10  
'80s Buick Grand National 3800 turbo was not mentioned, so apologies for the omission which is far more relevant. :eek:

Disclaimer: Hired into Buick V-8/V-6 Fact 36 as 0300 assembly worker in '76, (I was an assemblyy supervisor during the GN-turbo years. :rolleyes:) retired as skilled trades 6940 Toolmaker sharpening cutters that machined cases (blocks), heads, crankshafts, etc for Fact 36 as a primary customer of our onsite support plant.

Anyway, IMO 'high tech' doesn't mean better in all ways. I may work 'em hard, but I won't 'put em away wet'. Got auxiliary CPU cooler, transmission cooler, etc? Let 'em work from start up to shut down..

btw, no plans to add turbo to Mechron 2200. It's said to do 25 mph and I've had it up to 20 or so. I treat all #2 with Howe's, PS white bottle, and Stanadyne 'lubricity' upon arrival and IMO it's been cheap insurance against poor starting and fuel related issues.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #11  
I am starting this posting to see just have many Kioti owners have ad to deal with bad turbos and bad injectors. Keep it simple so that everyone can see who is having or who has had issues. Ill start this off,

Jim R. 430 hours bad #2 injector and oil in the intake hose. Injector replaced. Told that the oil in the intake hose is normal. 686 hours blown turbo seal oil in the intake hose still.

Kioti uses Delphi injectors so you should be able to save money rather than buying Kioti branded versions by cross referencing the number stamped on the side of the stock injector. The turbo is likely the same. Just search for Deadong turbo and see what comes up.

In my neck of the woods the sales pitch was that I'd need to regenerate every 50 hours. However, in practice doing nothing but easy loader work in cooler weather, my tractor was regenerating every 8-12 hours, once even going into limp home mode because it couldn't get warm enough to regenerate. This was unacceptable and a little research revealed fleets having the same problems. The field fix was to install a warmer thermostat that would allow the engine to warm up in colder climates while maintaining the stock fuel mapping. Working as an auto mechanic, it was routine that we would install warmer thermostats in cars and trucks when they came in for such jobs as stock, the cars and trucks would cool themselves off if stuck in traffic and idling too much in the cold and their engine's ECU map would drop the vehicle back into a richer warm-up map. The same thing was happening all over the USA with fleet Tier IV diesels. As such, I installed a warmer T-stat and my drivability problems went away and I started regenerating every 20-35 hours.


Back to you guys: I cannot speak to new tractors, but the original 2014 batch all have T-stats that begin to open at 160 degrees and when approaching wide open throttle, by pass the T-stat entirely. Under the right conditions of light load, cold weather, your tractors will never warm up to proper operating temperature and will always run on a richer fuel map. The richer fuel map can over time dilute oil faster requiring increased oil changes. My speculation, Jim, is that is what has perhaps happened to your tractor. I'd contact a Kioti or Bobcat shop in Canada and find out what T-stat they are running.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Kioti uses Delphi injectors so you should be able to save money rather than buying Kioti branded versions by cross referencing the number stamped on the side of the stock injector. The turbo is likely the same. Just search for Deadong turbo and see what comes up.

In my neck of the woods the sales pitch was that I'd need to regenerate every 50 hours. However, in practice doing nothing but easy loader work in cooler weather, my tractor was regenerating every 8-12 hours, once even going into limp home mode because it couldn't get warm enough to regenerate. This was unacceptable and a little research revealed fleets having the same problems. The field fix was to install a warmer thermostat that would allow the engine to warm up in colder climates while maintaining the stock fuel mapping. Working as an auto mechanic, it was routine that we would install warmer thermostats in cars and trucks when they came in for such jobs as stock, the cars and trucks would cool themselves off if stuck in traffic and idling too much in the cold and their engine's ECU map would drop the vehicle back into a richer warm-up map. The same thing was happening all over the USA with fleet Tier IV diesels. As such, I installed a warmer T-stat and my drivability problems went away and I started regenerating every 20-35 hours.


Back to you guys: I cannot speak to new tractors, but the original 2014 batch all have T-stats that begin to open at 160 degrees and when approaching wide open throttle, by pass the T-stat entirely. Under the right conditions of light load, cold weather, your tractors will never warm up to proper operating temperature and will always run on a richer fuel map. The richer fuel map can over time dilute oil faster requiring increased oil changes. My speculation, Jim, is that is what has perhaps happened to your tractor. I'd contact a Kioti or Bobcat shop in Canada and find out what T-stat they are running.

I will look into the T Stat in Canada. I recall all of your issues up there in cold Minnesota. It never gets that cold here. My motor is toasted. I'll put up the update on my original posting.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors #13  
I will look into the T Stat in Canada. I recall all of your issues up there in cold Minnesota. It never gets that cold here. My motor is toasted. I'll put up the update on my original posting.

Get the loader off and hood up and out of the way (or off) and the engine is pretty easy to get at. Did your dealer do a leak-down test to see where the compression is being lost? Before tearing into it, I'd want to determine that as well as send in fuel and oil samples to help determine what is going on. For all I know you have biodiesel issues in your fuel.
 
   / Blown Turbos and bad injectors
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Get the loader off and hood up and out of the way (or off) and the engine is pretty easy to get at. Did your dealer do a leak-down test to see where the compression is being lost? Before tearing into it, I'd want to determine that as well as send in fuel and oil samples to help determine what is going on. For all I know you have biodiesel issues in your fuel.
Fuel sample shows low cetane rating as in contaminate fuel. Now my only recourse is to figure out which of 2 gas stations either had gas in their diesel tanks or crap diesel. Good luck with proving that. All my purchases match buying diesel fuel. The pistons are all worn, piston slap in the cylinders, scoring in the cylinders and a ridge at the top of the cylinders. Low compression in all three cylinders and a completely plugged up DPF. I have a brand new motor on order. I'm not having it rebuilt. I am keeping all the old motor parts and may rebuild it myself in the future. The motor needs to be bored for oversize pistons. Who knows what other damage is done inside. Once I tear it down I can check the rod and main bearings, camshaft and cylinder head. The oil test came back with no contamination. The fuel problem could be some kind of biodiesel issue. I will have to look into that also at both gas stations where I bought fuel. They make a hydrometer for checking diesel fuel. I will be buying one. From here on out I will be checking all the fuel that I buy before putting it in my tractor. If the cetane rating is low it can be boosted up. The new motor comes complete with new high pressure fuel pump all new sensors and sending units. New latest version of injectors installed in the motor. One year warranty. The cost to rebuild the old motor was way up there. I decided to go brand new and get this done. I need the tractor now. I'll deal with the old motor down the road when I have time. I have already contacted both gas stations . I'm waiting to see if the managers will reply. Neither one was available the other day when I was there.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2016 Bobcat E85 Midi Excavator (A59228)
2016 Bobcat E85...
2020 FREIGHTLINER CASCADIA TANDEM AXLE SLEEPER (A59904)
2020 FREIGHTLINER...
Zero Turn Mower (A59231)
Zero Turn Mower...
2023 FORD F750 CAB & CHASSIS (A57880)
2023 FORD F750 CAB...
CASE IH STEIGER 400 HD TRACTOR (A58375)
CASE IH STEIGER...
2006 Dodge Ram Pickup (A56858)
2006 Dodge Ram...
 
Top