Bobcat Compact Excavator Test Drive

[Montana_Jack]

I have a Bobcat 430, zero turn, with steel treads which weighs in at 8100lbs. My dealer sells Kubota/Bobcat & told me the support for Bobcat was much better & down time wouldn't be as long in case of a problem. Also, the interest rate on the Bobcat was less than Kubota. I have an F350 V10 rated to tow 12,500lbs. That limits me to an 8,000, 9,000 lb machine. The Kubota 161 is a 12,000 lb machine & with the weight of the trailer, I'd be overloaded. The Kubota 121 ia 9,000lbs & just about max for me to move. The Takeyuchi 145 is 10,000 & too heavy for me. The only thing I would suggest with any machine you choose is to consider how you will move it, get steel treads in place of rubber unless working on blacktops & place a lot of weight on dealer support in making your decision. You may also want to consider zero turn if your working in close proximity to buildings. I don't believe the Kubota 121 is a zero turn machine. When comparing features, compare machines in the same weight class. Comparing a Bobcat 331 to a 337 is apples & oranges. There are certain times of the year that Kubota offers 0% interest as well as cash rebates for their equipment. If I had it to do over again, I would have purchased the Kubota 121 during this time. Good Luck.

 

[PBinWA]

A good current mini-ex overview article can be found here:

http://www.compactequip.com/pdfs/ce_dec06_mini_excavator.pdf

 

[couchsachraga]

Regarding Terex ....Terex is HUGE in the heavy- heavy equipment realm (though they seem to be losing market share), and they are essentially what has become of Dynahoe, Bucyrus Erie, and (not sure on this one) Euclid (I had thought they were GM...).

If you go to a mining operation, if they don't operate Cat they probably have Terex or their predeceasors....

Terex seems to be making a comeback in the "normal" heavy construction industry in New England as I've seen a few backhoes appear in the past few years....


Couchsachraga

 

[coopers]

"Most people looking for a small excavator should feel comfotable buying a Kubota."

AGREED!

Blake
WA

 

[Boondox]

Montana Jack

Yeah, the ability to move it around -- if just for service -- is a huge plus. I'd really like a KX121-3 with that angled blade, but with a Chevy 2500HD I'm not sure I could move it very well. So maybe the KX91-3 is the best bet for me. I borrowed a KX71-3 for a couple months last summer and while it was a very impressive machine there were a few things it was just too small to tackle.

Dealer support is huge, but unfortunately I only have one Kubota dealer nearby that sells excavators. They have a great rep, but don't haggle. Another option is Volvo. The third for me is Terex; the fit and finish isn't up to the others, but they appear to be built like tanks. No Bobcats in my area at all.

Regarding your comment that one ought to go with steel tracks unless working on blacktop...I'd been told there were very few applications where steel was preferred over rubber. Chief among them was that when the rubber wore out you replaced just that, the rubber. But the steel tracks had much more metal on metal contact and replacing them was extremely expensive, much more so than replacing the rubber three times over. Plus they're noisy, and having used a rubber-tracked mini for several rainy weeks I never once got stuck in the mud. Are there some advantages to steel that offset those of rubber?

Lastly, we get a lot of snow here in Vermont (well, not THIS winter!) and any tracked vehicle is like riding on skates. So if I get one it won't be used in the snowy months. But that does give me some concerns about the effects of weather on exposed controls in the canopy version. For that reason alone I'm considering getting a cab despite the extra expense. I would have nowhere out of the weather in which to store something as big as an excavator. Can anyone comment on that?

TIA, Pete

 

[nobull1]

Here are couple of my opinions on the Kubota's. A little over two years ago I purchased a KX91-3 with rubber tracks. The steel tracks were on b/o as they were quite rare in Canada. I used the rubber for a couple of months and found they were more susceptible to cuts and abrasions(read my http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/construction-equipment/41405-kubota-excavator.html). The cost of replacement rubber tracks is 3/4 the cost of steel(in Canada) and you will probably replace them 3-1 or more depending on where you use them. I would be scared to go in the woods with rubber for fear of spinning on a stump or catching a piece of wood between the drive and track. Also shale or pieces of steel hiding in the ground can really ruin a otherwise great day.The pushing power is nowhere near what the steel tracks have. This brings in the next issue the angle blade. I played with one at the dealers shop on one of my visits and found it to be fast and smooth and would seem to be a good idea. After much thought a couple of questions came to mind. One was how strong are the drive motors-can they push dirt over a long period of time. The initial use for the drive motors was to move the machine around the job site with some use for backfilling/grading. Now they promote them as a dozer, so to speak, to push fill around on a angle all day long. While this is a great thing to be able to do, I just don't know if the drive motors will take that kind of use in the long term. Time will tell if it's a good idea or not( I hate being a tester,especially on my dime) The cost of 1 drive motor is a lot more than the cost of 2 factory rubber tracks combined . Another issue, as I said previous is if you get rubber tracks you will not have the push of steel, and will spin the tracks a lot more(spinning rubber tracks is a sure way to potentially damage them).

The cab IMO is a necessity, if you don't live in the deep south. The first day you have to go out in the rain with wind blowing in your face or the temp is around freezing you will regret not paying whatever they wanted IMO.

I have a GMC 3600(just about the same as your 2500 HD) and have no problem towing my excavator. The reason I didn't go to the KX121 was weight. In our area you are getting into a different game due to, too much weight for a one ton(GCW) as well as requiring license upgrade.

These are just my observations and are subject to interpretation

Brian

Montana Jack

Yeah, the ability to move it around -- if just for service -- is a huge plus. I'd really like a KX121-3 with that angled blade, but with a Chevy 2500HD I'm not sure I could move it very well. So maybe the KX91-3 is the best bet for me. I borrowed a KX71-3 for a couple months last summer and while it was a very impressive machine there were a few things it was just too small to tackle.

Dealer support is huge, but unfortunately I only have one Kubota dealer nearby that sells excavators. They have a great rep, but don't haggle. Another option is Volvo. The third for me is Terex; the fit and finish isn't up to the others, but they appear to be built like tanks. No Bobcats in my area at all.

Regarding your comment that one ought to go with steel tracks unless working on blacktop...I'd been told there were very few applications where steel was preferred over rubber. Chief among them was that when the rubber wore out you replaced just that, the rubber. But the steel tracks had much more metal on metal contact and replacing them was extremely expensive, much more so than replacing the rubber three times over. Plus they're noisy, and having used a rubber-tracked mini for several rainy weeks I never once got stuck in the mud. Are there some advantages to steel that offset those of rubber?

Lastly, we get a lot of snow here in Vermont (well, not THIS winter!) and any tracked vehicle is like riding on skates. So if I get one it won't be used in the snowy months. But that does give me some concerns about the effects of weather on exposed controls in the canopy version. For that reason alone I'm considering getting a cab despite the extra expense. I would have nowhere out of the weather in which to store something as big as an excavator. Can anyone comment on that?

TIA, Pete

 

[Boondox]

Brian -- Thanks for the feedback. What you said about the steel tracks makes perfect sense, but I was very impressed with the traction I got out of the rubber tracks over the summer, plus they were very easy on the lawn when I had to cut across it. The KX71 I borrowed had 850 hours on the clock, all in the dirt and mud mixed with granite boulders and ledge, and the rubber still looked great. And in the past year the price of steel has soared! I think I'll check out some of the rental fleets and see how they compare after a few hundred hours of hard use.

You raised a great point about the angled blade that I'd never considered. To me the blade is more of a convenient way to push the dirt back into a trench; I'd never thought of dozing with it but taxing the drive is certainly a concern.

I'm looking at cabs not so much as a way of keeping the elements off me (we New Englanders don't believe in creature comforts), but keeping them off the controls in the cab. Seems like things would hold up better without constant exposure to rain and snow. The problem with getting a cab is you really need climate control to go with it, and the $$$ start racking up pretty quickly. If the prices were equal, at this point I'd probably go with a cab model KX91 over a canopy model KX121.

Pete

 

[nobull1]

Pete

Have you tried the steel tracks for traction? My previous machine to the KX91-3 was a steel track machine that I used for approximately 4 years. When I first obtained the Kubota it had rubber tracks and my employee and myself thought there was something wrong with the machine on the first job we went to. We were pushing granite slurry from a well drilling operation into a hole and the machine wouldn't move. We had done this many times previous to this and had no problem. The problem was the tracks were spinning in the slurry. This was never a problem before or after the steel tracks were installed. So after this we tried a couple of other common things that we always pushed and found quite a bit of difference in traction. If you haven't tried a steel track machine maybe you should before making a decision. As far as marking sods the steel will in most cases mark less than the rubber, unless you are making sharp turns. The noise is a issue to some degree, but not a lot. I always have my Peltors on so it makes no difference.

As far as how long the rubber tracks last: I have seen them go 2000 hours and also seen major damage in 100 or less. A competitor of mine was praising the rubber until he had one tear apart and cost him money to do that job. In the end he purchased an additional machine the same as his other one just with steel tracks instead. He also had no idea of what had happened to the rubber track. I am not trying to convince you to buy steel, because in the end it makes no difference to me what you buy or not. I am just trying to give a honest opinion based on my experience.

As far as the cab goes it's just a personal choice. Myself when it's snowing and blowing and I have to go break up piles of frozen snow/ice it's nice to have the cab. If it ever snows around here I'll take some pic's of me doing just that . You have a point about the controls being exposed to the weather. Myself I haven't heard of that being a issue, but most machines in our area do have cabs. I would think you could make a cover for the instrument panel and that would probably solve any potential problems.

Brian

 

[Boondox]

Brian -- Thanks again for the input. One comment you made really surprised me. You use your hoe in snowy conditions? The dealers here refer to tracked vehicles as "Ice Skates" in snow, and have told me they are essentially three season equipment. Of course Vermont is all hills so that might make a difference. I assume you live on pretty flat ground.

BTW: why did you go with the 91 over the 71? In looking at the specs they look remarkably similar. The 91 has more bucket breakout force, but everything else appears pretty close. What differences drove you to the larger of the two?

I'll definitely try to spend some time in a steel-tracked hoe for comparison's sake. Thanks again.

Pete

 

[nobull1]

Pete

Your dealer is correct they are like ice skates, even on wet ground, or some grassy conditions. You don't want to be sideways on a hill, thats for sure. The posssiblies could make a good movie . I use mine at the end of my farm driveway where the snow gets piled up after a few storms. I have nowhere to push the snow off to, so eventually it blocks off the driveway. The excavator works great to break up the frozen snow/ice and allowing me to pile it higher.

When I purchased my first machine I had no idea of how start or run one and was nervous as could be. This was in the late fall just before the snow came. Once we had a few snow storms on the ground I found it to be a great way for practice. People probably thought I was crazy out in below freezing weather moving snow over there and back.You can move a lot of material and do no harm, but get lots of practice For some reason I couldn't get the Rocky theme and sides of beef out of my mind

Last week I purchased a skid steer and have been out in the split hardwood pile picking up and moving wood around the yard: I wonder what the neigbours think .

As far as why I purchased the 91 over the 71 I will try to remember to the best of my abilty all of the facts. When I was looking at different machines I had it down to two manufacturers Bobcat and Kubota. The reason was, between them they have probably 90% of the market in our area and both of these manufacturers dealers have good service and a good name. The spec's for a 91 were comparable to a 331/430 Bobcat, with the 430 having higher ground speed as well as no overhang past the tracks. The Problem with the 430 was, it also was a little tippier(forwards and back) than the 91 and was a little wider to accomadate the o swing. Another factor was the Bobcat although comparable to the Kubota in most spec areas, was 40+ hp compared to the Kx91-3 with 28. Nobody at Bobcat could ever give me a good reason why I should have a larger motor that burns more fuel to do the same job. The big issue was the bucket breakout force, which for the 91 is 8053 over 6866 for the 331/430. In my experience this is a major factor, and more is better. Since time I have had mine boosted to approximittly 8900 with no negative results. This is not something to do unless you know your machines capabilities and are not foolish enough to do something that could potentionly cause harm to yourself or your machine. So how all this relates to the 91 over the 71 is; the 91 at that time was -3 and the 71 was -2. The Kx91-3 was the newest and biggest that I was able to haul legally with my one ton, in the Kubota line, and by getting the 91 you received the latest, greatest and most powerfull, IMO, that was available for me to pick from at that time. Did I make the right choice-who knows, but I will live with it.

Brian