Bobcat CT440 or JD 4105

CBR Farmer · Jun 27, 2009

New member here. Long post but wanted to get my thought process down

I have a 30 acre horse farm. The tractor will be used to pull a 6' plug aerator for my pastures, 6' bush cutter for my pastures, 6' box blade for maintaining my riding ring and driveway, 6' harrow drag for the riding ring, and using the FEL for moving dirt, rocks, mulch, and horse manure.

I have been lurking here for a while gathering some information on what to look for and how to go about finding the right tractor for me. I have my first question - which is a better long term value a CT440 for $3500 less than a 4105. Both have FELs. From an upfront price perspective it is a no brainer.

After reading here, I visited the local dealers and am most comfortable with the JD and Cat dealers. They are both equally close to me and have good reputations for their service department. I have test driven both tractors and both will work for me.

I think I could get by with a 30 HP tractor but like the higher lift capacity, weight and strength of the larger frame of the 40 HP.

The CT440 has more features for less money so like I said that is a no brainer. I guess my biggest questions are about reliability of a fairly new line of tractors with a short history to go by and long term viability of Bobcat keeping tractors so that parts will be available long-term. I don't anticipate needing another tractor for 20+ years.

Can anybody help me? I have never purchased a new tractor and am fairly new to tractors other than Farmall 140s and John Deere 420s (both from the 1950s and 1960s). I don't have a huge preference to any brand.

Thanks in advance for any help/thoughts you can provide.

Ken45101 · Jun 27, 2009

What is the rated 3 pt lift capacity of the two tractors?

I have a Kubota B2710 (27 hp) and I can't imagine a 6' bush hog on it, nor mowing 30 acres of pasture with it. I use a 50 hp tractor for that although it's loafing along most of the time.

A hydrostatic transmission is certainly nice for FEL operations, but it robs the net power going to the PTO. Again, 30 hp sounds low for a 6' bush hog.

Ken

CBR Farmer · Jun 28, 2009

Thank you for the comment.

These are both 40 HP tractors with ~31 HP at the PTO. The 3 pt lift capacity is 2200 for the JD and 1870 for the Cat at 24" from top link. The loader lift capacity is 1860 for the JD and 2050 for the cat.

I mow my pastures frequently so there is very little high grass to mow. I intensive graze my horses so they do a good job of eating the grass down. I just have to mow where they poop and will not eat. This is why I thought I could probably get by with a 30 HP tractor but would be better off with 40 HP. I should have explained my thoughts a little better.

tornadowatchranch · Jun 28, 2009

I do the same with our horses. I run a 5 foot hog with 26pto hp without ANY problems. I can mow in high as fast as the rough ground will allow. I would not hesitate on a six with mine but already owned the 5.
I recently opted for the Bobcat (335) after the same considerations. Even though Bobcat is new in this line the tractors have not changed much (if at all) from when they painted them orange(Kioti). I guess I figure even if Bobcat gets out of compact tractors I can get parts from Kioti.

JayC · Jun 28, 2009

Like TWR says they are repainted Kiotis, so they're hardly new. However, I believe Bobcat sources their loader from someone else (Woods maybe

). The CT440 is a Kioti DK40SE. The DK40SE KL401 loader is rated at 2700 lbs. to full height at the pivot pins. The CT440 is about a 100 lbs. less. If you have a Kioti dealer nearby you could stop by and see what they can do for you, too. I wouldn't even consider the 4105 if I could get the CT440 or even DK40SE for less. They are deluxe, fully featured tractors. I don't know where Bobcat gets their figures, but Kioti says the DK40SE lifts 2493 lbs. 24" aft of the 3ph. I would suggest to rather look to Kioti for specs on the CT440 than Bobcat (except for the loader since they're different).

RWolf · Jun 28, 2009

You might also look into the JD 5e series. I picked mine as listed in my byline for slightly over $20k. Rock solid tractor and I haven't found much that I couldn't do with it. Mine is 45engine hp and 40pto. Loader lifts at least 2000lbs. Operator station is comfortable with the required guages etc. without being cluttered. I have the shuttle shift which is very smooth to operate. It sounds like the majority of your work will be in the field HST is nice but not a requirement. I would suggest getting the wider tires as that will aid in traction. I got the 14.9's but if I had to do it over again I'd get the 16.9's. I regularly move large rounds, move dirt etc. I am very pleased with my JD. I think in the long run the value of the tractor will be higher with JD if for no other reason than the name.

Good luck.

Ken45101 · Jun 28, 2009

CBR Farmer said:
I mow my pastures frequently so there is very little high grass to mow. I intensive graze my horses so they do a good job of eating the grass down. I just have to mow where they poop and will not eat. This is why I thought I could probably get by with a 30 HP tractor but would be better off with 40 HP. I should have explained my thoughts a little better.

Okay, now I understand. Do you really need a brush mower, or would finish mower work better for you?

I usually only get around to mowing our 35 acres of pasture about once a year (twice at most) and some of the areas are chest high and thick. Our horses will ignore the grass and nibble in the areas with quarter inch clover

For the light mowing you describe, 30 hp pto would probably be plenty.

Ken

CBR Farmer · Jun 28, 2009

TWR and JayC - I looked into the Kioti connection some more. I did not realize they had been selling in the US since 1986. Also, the US HQ for Kioti is about 20 minutes from where I live. Both make me feel a little better about the CT440.

Rwolf Good point. I looked at the 5Es and they were close to $25K here which is out of my price range. It is a nice tractor but I have a hard stop at $22K on my funds. The 4105 was right at $22K and the CT440 is $19K - both after tax. The main difference in price is the free FEL for the CT440.

Ken45101 - My land is pretty undulating with some sharp drop offs so I am afraid a finishing mower might get beat up too much. I do have a finishing mower for my yard which I forgot to mention as one of the uses for the tractor.

All, thanks for the replies. This is good information and is helping me with my decision.

MtnViewRanch · Jun 28, 2009

Don't get me wrong, both tractors are good machines, but for the price how can you not get the Bobcat? I've noticed that around here the rental yards are going away from JD to the Bobcats.

IslandTractor · Jun 28, 2009

I don't know the JD but I have owned a Kioti DK40se for the past couple of years and rate it very highly. As others have noted, it is a fully featured tractor that is both convenient and comfortable to use. Tremendous value from Bobcat on their different paint/decal version right now too.

CBR Farmer · Jun 28, 2009

Thanks again everyone! I appreciate the comments and tips. This is a great website for a newbie tractor buyer.

MountainView - I am with you on the price. I just wasn't that familiar with Bobcat, so I was worried about them long-term.

I am about 95% set on the Bobcat now. It definitely has more usable features than the 4105 for less money. I was more worried about long-term parts and service since I hopefully will not need to buy another tractor. From the comments here and additional research on Kioti, I think I am set. My sales guy is out until Wednesday so I will be playing the waiting game until then.

One more question for Island Tractor. What do you mean by the statement below? If I can get the same tractor for a lower price because it looks differnet, that works for me. I don't care what it looks like as long as it runs good and for a long time.

IslandTractor said:
Tremendous value from Bobcat on their different paint/decal version right now too.

tornadowatchranch · Jun 28, 2009

here in Kansas if you have more than 10 acres and are using it for farm type work it is tax free. Not sure on the exact details but something to look into. We are set up as a USDA farm so that was easy here.

IslandTractor · Jun 29, 2009

CBR Farmer said:
One more question for Island Tractor. What do you mean by the statement below? If I can get the same tractor for a lower price because it looks differnet, that works for me. I don't care what it looks like as long as it runs good and for a long time.

My sentence wasn't clear. What I meant was that you can currently get the best deal on that tractor (DK40se/CT440) from Bobcat due to their promotional program. The only difference from the Kioti version is the color and decals on the tractor. The loader manufacturer is different but I'd trust Bobcat to choose a reasonable loader source.

I love my Kioti and my Kioti dealer but I'd have a hard time justifying an extra several thousand bucks just to have orange paint.

some zilch · Jun 29, 2009

i work at a bobcat dealer, and our customers love the tractors. several have traded in deeres for the bcats. sveral of our employees have bought bobcat tractors for their own use at home.

CBR Farmer · Jun 29, 2009

Thanks again to everyone. I do appreciate it.

I have made the decision to go with the Bobcat. You all have helpped me a lot. I like to buy it once rather than buy cheap and buy twice. From what everyone has said, I am not worried about the quality issue anymore. The Bobcat is just less expensive not cheaper than the deere.

TWR - we have a similar program in NC but you have to have a minimum amount of revenue from agriculture which I do not meet. The revenue from the horse riding lessons my wife gets does not count unfortunately. It sure would help.

Island Tractor - thanks for the clarification. The free FEL is a huge discount in Bobcat's favor.

IslandTractor · Jun 30, 2009

CBR Farmer said:
Island Tractor - thanks for the clarification. The free FEL is a huge discount in Bobcat's favor.

Actually, Kioti has the same "free FEL" deal going. What Bobcat has done is throw in some rebate cash on top of that. I don't know how they are making a profit but they are offering great deals. I hope our poor Kioti dealers can weather the storm as Bobcat cannot keep this up forever.

chazzy · Jun 30, 2009

Why not consider a Bobcat CT445 which has the $2000 rebate PLUS free FEL right now? All the other CT models's rebate is only $500 except for CT230 ($3500 rebate) which would be too small for your intended use. Today my local BC dealer gave me a quote of $18,900 for the CT445 w/ FEL. That's a lot of tractor for that amount of $$.

powergod · Jun 30, 2009

chazzy said:
Why not consider a Bobcat CT445 which has the $2000 rebate PLUS free FEL right now? All the other CT models's rebate is only $500 except for CT230 ($3500 rebate) which would be too small for your intended use. Today my local BC dealer gave me a quote of $18,900 for the CT445 w/ FEL. That's a lot of tractor for that amount of $$.

excellent point on the rebates makes it worth considering IMHO

CBR Farmer · Jun 30, 2009

Chazzy - great point. My sales guy went on vacation last Thursday after we talked about the 440 price. He stayed late that day which impressed me since a lot of guys would have rushed talking with me. He said there might be a better deal on the 445. I told him we could talk about it when he gets back since I had kept him late already and the discounts are good for a few more weeks.

I didn't realize it would be a $1500 difference in the discount. That would be a no brainer to get the extra horses for roughly the same price. Now that I have made my decision it is just getting better. I can't wait for him to get back and get this thing ordered.

carpenter383 · Jun 30, 2009

CBR Farmer said:
Chazzy - great point. My sales guy went on vacation last Thursday after we talked about the 440 price. He stayed late that day which impressed me since a lot of guys would have rushed talking with me. He said there might be a better deal on the 445. I told him we could talk about it when he gets back since I had kept him late already and the discounts are good for a few more weeks.

I didn't realize it would be a $1500 difference in the discount. That would be a no brainer to get the extra horses for roughly the same price. Now that I have made my decision it is just getting better. I can't wait for him to get back and get this thing ordered.

Be sure to let us know how you like it and post some pics! Are you getting hydro or shuttle shift?