BOOGITY, BOOGITY, BOOGITY....LET'S GO RACIN'

[NewToy]

I hope Theresa Earnhardt had a good seat to watch her former driver demonstrate what he can do with adaquate equipment!

Now only if they hadn't RUINED Bristol.

What was she thinking when she let him walk? That'll go down as one of the biggest bonehead moves ever.

John

 

[VA Rebel]

Hamlin is a great driver. People around Virginia and North Carolina short tracks had heard of him. Don't forget they put Yeley in a Gibbs car at the same time and he didn't do anything.

 

[AGRIMAN]

I had passed this tread up in fear of starting a war about my opinion on what NASCAR has become and where it's headed, but after reading some of the other post I couldn't agree more. I not trying to change anyone's opinion so if you still enjoy it then please continue and have fun because that's what is all about and every man to his own liking. This is still America.

Being from the south NASCAR was as common as ice tea, but as far as myself and some others, we have pretty much given up on it. For me 10 years ago.

I have also said many times that NASCAR is becoming nothing more than professional wrestling/family entertainment. The COT is the latest step by NASCAR to eliminate the need for the talented drivers. They are trying to make it where anyone can get behind the wheel and win a race. In the future it will become less about how good of a driver you are and more about how you look on TV and how much you can sale. It's not about the racing anymore it's all about money and marketing.

I have nearly 20 year of racing under my belt and I'm a firm believer in two things. You must have a good set of rules and if you are not pushing them all you can you are not racing or winning. Racing to me is about searching within the rules until you find that one little or combination of things that gives you the advantage and riding it until some one else figures it out and if you get out run then go home and do your homework. "Run what you brought and hope you brought enough". That's racing ....not everyone driving the same thing and I can't help but to believe that's what a large group of the old fans what to see....racing is not 42 guys driving the same car and if what I've heard about declining ticket sales is true then I must not be the only one.

I also agree... that now and in the future if you what to see real racing by people who do it for the love of doing it, go to any of your local tracks on Friday and Sat night.

I know someone is going to say that putting all the drivers in equal car is the best way to see who's really the best driver. Please....real talent needs room to grow so I say give it to them and when you are at it....toss the restrictor plate, turn them loose, send Toyota back to Japan and bring back our sport.



Just my opinion

 

[ray66v]

The COT is the latest step by NASCAR to eliminate the need for the talented drivers.

First I'd like to assure you that I do not necessarily disagree with what you said, and it seems to be the sentiments of a lot of long time NASCAR fans.
Not being a fan that goes back to the "Glory Days", I don't know what to think about how the sport is today, because I was not into it enough back then to be able to judge. I do now enjoy the sport, (Mostly).
Could you please try to explain why you think the COT is the latest step by NASCAR to eliminate the need for the talented drivers?
My thoughts were:
1. It would keep the team with the most money from winning mostly. (That seems like a reasonable idea). and
2. If the cars are similar why does it not mean the drivers need to be more talented, since the most talented ones will likely win more?
Just trying to understand...

 

[MikePA]

Agriman, I agree with most of what you wrote. The only point of disagreement is I still think there are talented drivers in NASCAR. It shows when they race in other series such as late models and American LeMans series. Like many people I started watching NASCAR when about the only race was the Daytona 500 on CBS. Then in the early 80s I watched it every Sunday when ESPN carried the series. If I couldn't be near a TV, I listened to it on the radio.

These days, I am back to watching the Daytona 500 and not much else. Cookie cutter cars with cookie cutter drivers. I don't say that to demean their talent, rather their personalities, which, save Stewart and Busch, are pretty much the same. Between NASCAR rules and team PR people, there isn't much difference between the drivers or the cars. I had hope for the truck series when it started. At least there were real sheet metal differences between the brands, but they've legislated that out of existence.

Granted, except for the very early years, the cars have not been stock, but at least in the 70s and 80s there was some difference between the bodies and the engines. To call what's running around the track today a Ford, a Chevy or even a Toyota is a real big stretch. All you have to do is see the cars in test sessions without paint or decals and 9 out of 10 people couldn't figure out what kind of car it was supposed to be. To say Harvick drives a Chevy is like saying John Force drives a Mustang.

NASCAR really didn't have much choice. The manufacturers were not designing cars to run well on the tracks so some models did better than others, meaning they dominated. NASCAR wanted to keep all the manufacturers happy, so they began changing the front and back ends of the cars to create parity. The logical conclusion of this process is the COT where the only difference between the brands are the decals.

NASCAR has become entertainment, which is fine. For most people, history began on the day they were born and this goes for their NASCAR experience, too. The 60s, 70s and 80s are just newsreel footage they watch in NASCAR commercials. I just don't have the desire to sit in front of the TV for 3 - 4 hours watching it anymore. I don't think there's any collusion to determine winners ala WWE, but the rules have changed so much in an effort to give all the brands an equal chance of winning I look at is as closed wheel Indy racing, as I mentioned, cookie cutter cars being driven by talented but cookie cutter drivers.

 

[NewToy]

While the COT may look the same from team to team there are thousands of variables in the set up of each individual car. The cars are indeed very different. ARCA cars are supposedly set up identically and the drivers draw for their car. The ARCA forum would be a better venue to compare drivers and take the superior/inferior car out of the equation. NASCAR is where the multi-car mega $$ teams have a decided advantage getting the car adjusted during a race. If something works for one driver in the stable, be it the line they're running, suspension tweaks, etc,etc that is conveyed to the other crew chiefs in that particular organization. HMS operates with an open book policy and they have been running pretty good of late. Look at the Woods bros COT and a Hendrick COT and you'll realize they are indeed very different cars.
With that said, I think Jr's win was scripted, ala WWF.

John

 

[RobertN]

While the COT may look the same from team to team there are thousands of variables in the set up of each individual car. The cars are indeed very different. ARCA cars are supposedly set up identically and the drivers draw for their car. The ARCA forum would be a better venue to compare drivers and take the superior/inferior car out of the equation. NASCAR is where the multi-car mega $$ teams have a decided advantage getting the car adjusted during a race. If something works for one driver in the stable, be it the line they're running, suspension tweaks, etc,etc that is conveyed to the other crew chiefs in that particular organization. HMS operates with an open book policy and they have been running pretty good of late. Look at the Woods bros COT and a Hendrick COT and you'll realize they are indeed very different cars.
With that said, I think Jr's win was scripted, ala WWF.

John

I got in to model sailboats. There are a number of one design classes. They have to use all the same boats, sails, rigging etc. How they tune, and how much detail they get in to as they build thier boats can be a big factor on race day. It is still though, a class for skippers.

I see this with COT. It is moving to a one design class. There are a lot of tuning variables, and how you tune can affect how well the car performs. Still, the cars are very even, allowing for more of a drivers class.

The different classes have thier advantages and disadvantages.

I like the Cup series the way it used to be. Sure, one manufacturer might jump out in front. But then some restrictions, and development by the othe rmanufactureer evened it out. The whole thing leap frogged around from manufacturer to manufacturer. In the late 60's and early 70's, Ford and Mopar fought it out big time. In the mid 80's, Ford and GM battled it out. Look at what happened when Ford brought out the ne thunderbird in '83. Million Dollar Bill started running away, but a few restrictions and some better engineering by GM the next year tightened things up.

I think one thing they want to limit too, with COT, is the Superbirds and Talledega's got going scary dangerous fast before major restrictions. Saw that happening agin in the 80's. they can slow them down a bit with COT.

 

[ray66v]

With that said, I think Jr's win was scripted, ala WWF.

John

Assuming your serious,
that makes perfect sense!
Until you wonder?
Why did the script writers give NASCAR's most popular driver such an abysmal season last year, that he did not make the chase?
Then it makes no sense.

 

[NewToy]

I got in to model sailboats. There are a number of one design classes. They have to use all the same boats, sails, rigging etc. How they tune, and how much detail they get in to as they build thier boats can be a big factor on race day. It is still though, a class for skippers.

I see this with COT. It is moving to a one design class. There are a lot of tuning variables, and how you tune can affect how well the car performs. Still, the cars are very even, allowing for more of a drivers class.

The different classes have thier advantages and disadvantages.

I like the Cup series the way it used to be. Sure, one manufacturer might jump out in front. But then some restrictions, and development by the othe rmanufactureer evened it out. The whole thing leap frogged around from manufacturer to manufacturer. In the late 60's and early 70's, Ford and Mopar fought it out big time. In the mid 80's, Ford and GM battled it out. Look at what happened when Ford brought out the ne thunderbird in '83. Million Dollar Bill started running away, but a few restrictions and some better engineering by GM the next year tightened things up.

I think one thing they want to limit too, with COT, is the Superbirds and Talledega's got going scary dangerous fast before major restrictions. Saw that happening agin in the 80's. they can slow them down a bit with COT.

I remember Bobby Allison coming real close to getting up in the grandstand at Talladega, very scary. They dodged a bullet there, could have had a 100 people get killed. They were really fast pre-plate, Bill's qualifying laps at Daytona & Talladega are records that'll be hard to beat. That must have been a challange for drivers of that era to race those cars. I assume the current COT handles better than the 80's cars , taking advantage of refinements in tire and suspension technology over the last 20 years.They are almost 20 mph slower too. That rear wing and duck bill on the nose are pretty trick looking. I saw a few cars at the Shootout I thought for sure were gonna wreck , but they straightened them out. Plate sure does keep them bunched up though, it's gotta be a tense 3-4 hours of driving.
Ray66, Just stirring the pot with the Jr remark. It'd be pretty tough to pull off a scheme like that. Jr just knows those big plate tracks. I got a real kick out of his post race interview, he was pretty emotional. You couldn't have wrote a better script with all the changes he's endured the past year. He just knows how to draft and having a top notch ride doesn't hurt any.

John

 

[RobertN]

They were really fast pre-plate, Bill's qualifying laps at Daytona & Talladega are records that'll be hard to beat. That must have been a challange for drivers of that era to race those cars. I assume the current COT handles better than the 80's cars , taking advantage of refinements in tire and suspension technology over the last 20 years.
John

The plate came out much earlier. Nothing could keep up with a Hemi in the late 60's till the demise of the big block in '71/'72. The only thing that came close was the 427 Fords, but even they could not hang with them. First thing they did was restrict it.

Imagine running Daytona or Talledega, in a Daytona or Talladega, in '70, with the tires and suspension then. Those cars ran really fast, and their records were not broke by much.

I was only 7 or 8 when they ran those cars; I don't remember much. Most I have read. I sure would like to own a Superbird Too bad a reasonable one starts at over $100k. Funny though, nice Talledega's are out there on occasion, in the $30k range.