Bought me a Dell!

[Dargo]

I can answer that. First is the price. It's just flat a fact that you pay more for a Mac than a PC. Secondly, Apple refused to allow other vendors the ability to make "clones", like IBM did. Your common desktop PC is basically an IBM clone. Apple choose not to go that way. Their strategy.

Personally, from owning a computer business for several years, I think that Apple makes a quality product. For many years it was common to go into a store such as Best Buy and see 15 isles full of software for a PC, and half of one isle for a Mac. That didn't help. And, as much as he likes them, you just can't upgrade the Macs like a PC. I, too, generally make a major upgrade to my computer system every 18 months or so. That costs me around $300 to $400 dollars and I stay with pretty well the "latest and greatest" system. Large corporations do much the same. One of my biggest customers was Bristol Myers. The one location by me had 2400 PCs. They either upgraded or replaced about 100 PCs each month. That kept them on a 2 year cycle of upgrading for an average cost of $400 to $500. As I stated before, you can't do that with a Mac. Therefore, their overall cost of operation and keeping up to date computers on their desks is much less than buying new Macs every 2 years. Also, a lot of proprietary software for these corporations is just now becoming available for Apple computers.

Also, as I said before, I still may one day buy an Apple computer. I'm just too cheap to pay a premium just to "have one". Apparently 95% of the computer buying population seems to feel the same way. Again, I have no bad comments about the computers or their operating system. It's a pure overall cost of ownership and operation that is prohibitive. I no longer own or operate a computer business, but I can still build systems in my sleep. All the talk and banter in the world will not change the facts. But, hey, you sure find some die hard Mac fans. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[rswyan]

hillsider,

Yeah - I do like 'em. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

In fact, I like computers generally - even windows pcs.

My first experience with computers was on a Pick Systems mini-computer that my parents were attempting to computerize their business with. This was prior to the advent of personal computers. Although it was some fun to tinker with, it wasn't a workable solution - the primary problem being a lack of software tailored to their business, or competent personnel to program it. They sunk alot of money into what eventually was an unworkable solution.

After they failed to get that to work, I talked them into going with a proprietary, integrated system - hardware and software. It was made by a company called Triad Systems - they were a vertical market developer, for specific industries - in our case, the automotive aftermarket. They are now called Activant. It wasn't cheap - close to $500K - which I personally guaranteed. I oversaw the physical installation of that system in the three separate locations the busniess had at that time (the two satellite locations used "dumb" terminals that were tied back to the main location where the computer was, via dedicated phone lines) I oversaw getting all the inventory data entered into the computer system - this included 15,000 - 30,000 individual sku's per location, pricing (generally 4 prices per sku), and the last year of sales history for each sku, at each location. As well, I oversaw setting up the accounts recievable portion of the computer (around 1000 accounts), account payable (around 100 vendors) the ordering system, including product orders telecommunicated to vendors computers, point-of-sale invoicing, and was working on setting up the general ledger when I left the company. It took around a year with multiple people working on it, just to get the inventory data and sales history entered in. The year after that, we were able to reduce our inventory by 1/3 ($300K) ..... while still increasing our sales by 50% ($1,000,000)

My first exposure to the Mac was shortly after this, when we bought a Mac Plus and a Laserwriter to produce our own catalogs and flyers.

 

[Mark4510]

I hate to admit it but in my misguided youth I worked for Apple and then after that for Intel. After years of experience between those two companies my take on this is pretty middle of the road. Both make good solutions but there are more economies of scale and competition in the PC market.

Real power and novice users buy solutions. Geeks buy whatever turns the propeller on their beanie.

That being how I see it, if I were buying a computer today, I would determine what I want to accomplish, order a Dell that fits my needs and not look back.

Mark

 

[rswyan]

Jagman,

That's a good question. Brent points out a couple of reasons - price being one, and cloning being the other.

There's a little more to the "standard" and cloning issue ..... specifically, with IBM producing a PC, having their history in the computer industry, and being willing (eventually - it didn't start like that immediately) to open the architecture and allowing cloning ........ people were looking for a standard" to glom onto ..... and the IBM PC became it ..... Apple was just this upstart company founded by a couple of kids (Jobs and Woz) IBM was the safe bet for corporate America. Over time, eventually a mindset develops - in the politics of the corporate world lots of folks just concentrate on being "safe" (the "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM")

Windows certainly wasn't the "standard" - shoot, it didn't even exist at that point. Bill Gates got lucky - although he certainly is a genius at business, regardless of his luck.

Attracting developers and software availability was also definitely an issue - not that there wasn't always plenty of software in most every category available for the Mac - it just that they didn't have as big a selection as the Windows world.

 

[rswyan]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Secondly, Apple refused to allow other vendors the ability to make "clones", like IBM did. )</font>
That's true initially - although they did allow for a short period after Jobs was gone. Too little too late, and it was bad move (only cut their margins, with no corresponding increase in marketshare), didn't play to their strengths.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( And, as much as he likes them, you just can't upgrade the Macs like a PC. )</font>
I'm still trying to figure this one out Brent - maybe at some point you'll get a little more specific and enlighten us all.

Please to explain .... what this consists of, specifically. Faster processor ? New logic board ? More ram ? Bigger, faster hard drive ?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As I stated before, you can't do that with a Mac. )</font>
Well you can keep saying it - but that doesn't make it true. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

But you might get some to buy into it - afterall it is one of the oldest PR tricks in the book. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As I stated before, you can't do that with a Mac .... <snip> ..... All the talk and banter in the world will not change the facts. )</font>
Is there some reason you are avoiding being specific ?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( But, hey, you sure find some die hard Mac fans. )</font>
As well as PC fans too, apparently.

 

[Dargo]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm still trying to figure this one out Brent - maybe at some point you'll get a little more specific and enlighten us all.

Please to explain .... what this consists of, specifically. Faster processor ? New logic board ? More ram ? Bigger, faster hard drive ? )</font>

Holy cow man. I don't have the time nor desire to list the hundreds of vendors of motherboards, front side buses available, processors, over clocking devices, BIOS chip manufacturers, types of memory, 256 MB video cards available etc. etc. etc. etc. that is available to choose from to upgrade a PC for $300 or less. I take that back, there are literally thousands of makers of these items that gives the PC user a price and quality competitive market. That just doesn't exist for a Mac. Period. No other need for "specifics". Gees o Pete! I told you that I like Macs, they are reliable, the software issue is getting much better, but apparently that's not good enough. Nothing personal, but look to the other 95% of the computer market to explain the thousands of reasonable priced options available to upgrade a PC without spending much money as opposed to what you can do with a Mac. I give up. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I feel like I'm trying to explain why water is wet. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[gsxr1100]

I hear ya? LOL WHOA /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can upgrade my pc many times over for a cheap price (as I have stated) and still be behind the 8-ball.....

I am telling ya, the owners make the great oil debate look like pre-school.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif..it is a joke for the people that do not get it...

 

[AndyM]

<font color="blue"> I am telling ya, the owners make the great oil debate look like pre-school.... ..it is a joke for the people that do not get it... </font>

Our puny mortal brains cannot handle your concepts.

Until the rest of us catch up with the TBN Talosians in the 23rd century, we will continue to buy Fords, Rotella oil, and Apple computers. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



Gotta go for tonight... I've got to refill my diesel at the Walmart. Saves me 5 cents a gallon!

 

[hillslider]

AhHHHH the Triad system. Used it for many hours. I got to play with this sytem when I worked for a small chain of parts stores about 17 yaers ago called OK Auto Parts in northern WI. I thought the set up was pretty cool and it sure saved a lot of time. It sure beat the card file system I saw in many small parts stores. I then moved into the NAPA world and they used IBM clones with a Unix system. They called the set up TAMS...Total Automotive Manegement System. This set up was even better. NAPA did a great job inventing a system for their jobber stores. I miss the NAPA world...managed several stores for 12 years and then went to work for the corporate guys running a company store. Pressure was high and every time you would have a poor month they wanted to play with the pay scale.....told them to pack it and left. Someday I would love to get back into the NAPA world and maybe own my own store.

 

[rcrcomputing]

Well, we gotta have at least one Dell anti-vote here. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
A good clone will hook up to it and pull it backwards. Very noticable differance in responsivness etc..

Time marches on... Used to be Packard bells were all in the shop, then was Gateways, then came the HP's and Compaq's, now lots of Dells.. They all make the rounds.

Interesting things come in the shop.
Dell sends little old ladies motherboards to install.
Sends wireless modules for laptops that have the slot inside but no antenna hook-ups. (This was new)

You have to watch them. They'll put 256meg ram in a new machine which blows your performance down even slower. Or a 5400rpm drive rather than a 7200rpm, or a drive with 1meg cache rather than an 8meg cache. And/or onboard video (That really slugs you down) These simple things add up to a poor performing machine.

Will you notice today? Maybe not, but as software evolves, you'll see the problem long before I do on a good clone. Of course, finding a good place to buy your clone from is a whole nuther ball game.. And that's the problem.

For the price, dell is probably a good deal. But not if you want a performance machine. A good 64 bit machine with a good 128-256 meg video card will flat smoke it. REALLY smoke it!