Box Scraper Box Blade as FEL Counterbalance on Compact Tractors (Beta version)

[jeff9366]

1) Tractor neophytes are usually oblivious to the need for Front End Loader (FEL) counterbalance on the Three Point Hitch.

2) Tractor neophytes are often oblivious to the importance of weight per unit of width when purchasing a Box Blade.

3) A Box Blade is the Three Point Hitch implement most frequently utilized as counterbalance to FEL loads.

I want to develop CORE COMMENT on these inter-related topics.
Application to COMPACT TRACTORS, ie: 12" ground clearance minimum.
(Probably not applicable to Subcompact tractors where few 100 pounds/foot Box Blades are available and "loading" small volume rear tires are not in proportion to heavier tractors.)


This seems fairly universal:

COMPACT TRACTORS >12" ground clearance: Box Blades effective at 100 pounds per foot of width, 120 pounds per foot of width better, 150 pounds per foot of width better-better.

With "loaded" rear tires a Box Blade weight of 120 (+/-) pounds per foot of width is reasonable counterbalance for heavy, not max, FEL lifts.

When rear tires are inflated with air Box Blade weight of 150 (+/-) pounds per foot of width is reasonable counterbalance for heaviest FEL lifts.

Suggested content welcome. Keep it pithy.

pithy ~ adjective ~ 1.(of language or style) concise and forcefully expressive.
synonyms: succinct, terse, concise, compact, short (and sweet), brief, condensed, to the point, epigrammatic, crisp, thumbnail;




The soils I have observed in WV are tough. Box Blades do not cut very well with less thaN 100 pounds weight per foot of width.

Box Blade weight is important as counterbalance to FEL loads when the Backhoe is off. If your rear tires are filled with liquid, 125 pounds per foot of width is about right for counterbalance to FEL loads. If rear tires are filled with air, 150 pounds per foot of width is about right for counterbalance. (For hill work you will likely opt for liquid filled rear tires.)


For an L2501/3301 or L3560 order an implement for Three Point Hitch counterbalance. Box Blade is most frequent choice. I often moont a Cultipacker, which is very compact in size, yet heavy.

LEVERAGE makes a 600 pound counterbalance implement protruding 48" to the rear of tractor more effective counterbalance than 600 pound implement protruding 30".


Few new to tractors realize how much implement weight is transferred to tractor tires, front and rear, through the Three Point Hitch. Fairly obviously, when a mounted implement is raised entirely off the ground, 100% of the implement weight is transferred to the tractor tires.

When implements are drawn by the tractor in ground contact, implement weight transfer to tractor wheels is on the order of 40%; more transiently. Supplying ample implement weight for tractor traction is an important reason to purchase ground contact implements heavy per unit of width, not much wider than rear tires.

Tractor "packages" are notorious for being composed of light, marginally effective, ground contact implements.



Many compact tractor owners utilizing implements as Three Point Hitch counterbalance choose Box Blades.

Box Blades do not cut acceptably, at least for me, until weight is at least 100 pounds per foot of width. My Box Blade is 125 pounds per foot of width. Construction Box Blades are 200 pounds per foot of width or more.

Box Blades of at least 100 pounds per foot of width, and widths of 48", 60", 72" have reasonable weight for counterbalance to general FEL work. One hundred twenty to 150 pounds per foot of width is desirable for counterbalance to HEAVY FEL loads.

Photos 2,3: The sopping wet Water Oak weighed around 1,400 pounds. My Rollover Box Blade weighs 630 pounds.
Tractor's rear wheels were very lightly in ground contact. I should have had a heavier implement on the Three Point Hitch.


Four hundred pounds is enough.

Too much rear weight and the front will lift when you move up a slope with the bucket empty.

Bare tractors are designed with a weight distribution of 40% front, 60% rear.

Add a Front End Loader and the weight distribution becomes 50% front, 50% rear. (+/-)

Fill the bucket and the weight moves forward, leveraged by low-forward position of a laden bucket.
Could be 60% front, 40% rear. (Tractor wheelbase affects weight distribution.)

Rear wheels unlikely to lift from the ground at this moment on level ground, but they will certainly be "light" if bucket payload is wet. Hazardous transporting FEL load over soft or uneven ground.

Green tree trunk sections and laden pallets on pallet forks are often heavier than wet bucket loads. Pallets protrude. Weight distribution could be 70% front, 30% rear. Probability of rear wheels lifting high, pivoting on the relatively weak front axle, which may not be perpendicular to tractor frame.
Conditions for potential tractor rollover.

Suffecient Three Point Hitch counterbalance restores weight distribution to 40% front, 60% rear. (+/-)

Four hundred pounds protruding to the rear seems ample to me.



Bare tractors are designed with a weight distribution of 40% front, 60% rear.

Add a Front End Loader and the weight distribution becomes 50% front, 50% rear. (+/-)

Fill the bucket and the weight moves forward, leveraged by low-forward position of a laden bucket.
Could be 60% front, 40% rear. (Tractor wheelbase affects weight distribution.)

Rear wheels may or may not lift from the ground at this moment, but they will certainly be "light" if bucket payload is wet.

Green tree trunk sections and laden pallets on pallet forks are often heavier than wet bucket loads. Laden pallets protrude forward. Weight distribution could be 70% front, 30% rear.

Suffecient Three Point Hitch counterbalance restores weight distribution to 40% front, 60% rear. (+/-)



Moving dirt is work for a Box Blade with scarifiers.

Box Blades need to weigh 100 pounds per foot of width for this work; 150 pounds per foot of width better. Weight is your friend in ground contact work.

Box Blade needs to be as wide as your rear tires or a bit wider.

Box Blade is the most common implement used as Three Point Hitch counterbalance to FEL loads, ballasting rear of tractor on the ground. Box Blades need to weigh 100 pounds per foot of width to be effective as FEL counterbalance; 150 pounds per foot of width better.

Consider a ROLLOVER Box Blade, pictured, in addition to standard Box Blades.

A stand alone Scarfier will not provide enough counterbalance weight.
With a full bucket of moist soil your rear wheels will rise off the ground, rather than your bucket load. If you get the bucket up and one front wheel drops into a rut or hole, the tractor will roll over.

Center-pivot front axles are weak relative to solid rear axles, where tractor weight is engineered to be carried. If you carry FEL loads without sufficient Three Point Hitch counterbalance is is hard on your front axle and front axle bearings as well as being hazardous.

So, even if you decide to repetitiously move dirt a considerable distance in your FEL bucket you need a heavy Box Blade or another heavy implement mounted on the Three Point Hitch. LONG IMPLEMENTS (Bush Hog, Disc Harrow) soon impinge on tractor maneuverability. Box Blades are fairly compact.

Buy HEAVY once; cry once.

 

[majorwager]

For those NOT engaged in heavy highway road construction, many folks have purchased smaller, lighter tractors, and been absolutely thrilled with the results. Jeffy would have you purchase a duel rear wheel HD pick-up for your work commute, in the outside chance you purchase a 30 ft 5th wheel camper on your way home one day. Buy more tractor than you need, so you can cry over the payments, jeff is correct in that respect,


EDIT: Summer maintenance is an elusive term. Opinion is confused with experience. Not everyone will report the same result. Doing light repair and infilling minor washouts , filling some potholes, is very different than rebuilding the entire driveway. Many small landowners lack the experience and appetite for road construction.

Heavy implements require larger, heavier tractors, a WASTED expense for many folks. The OP always holds the same position, ONE SIZE FITS ALL, it is simply NOT Accurate.

 

[spitter]

What's wrong with a dually as a daily driver? 01 7.3 4x4 crew cab dually taking me food shopping as soon as Acme opens up. Never have to worry about buying to many groceries.:drink:

 

[oosik]

Unfortunately - you have missed the point again Majorwager. They can buy light as I did - Land Pride RB3596 @ 565#. Fantastic blade - superior construction - backed by an excellent corporation - but simply too light for any summer maintenance on my gravel driveway.

Sadly - I sold it for half what I paid and bought a Rhino 950 - 8 foot at 1100 pounds. Went from ~70 pound per foot with the Land Pride to ~135 pound per foot with the Rhino.

I speak from "costly experience" - - weight is your friend when dealing with land engagement implements.

 

[/pine]

As pointed out in many other similar threads...lighter grading implements merely require more time/more passes but will do the same work as heavier attachments...
If an implement is not working as designed to at least some degree...it likely the wrong implement...

As for the statement about box blades being the "most common counterbalance" for loader work...where did this (likely hearsay) factoid come from?

 

[majorwager]

Often from a distant silence emerges a voice of reason and logical solution, known to his peers as /pine.


Sadly I missed the liquidation sale for the 3596 blade, would have been more than adequate for my use.

 

[aczlan]

If an implement is not working as designed to at least some degree...it likely the wrong implement...

Or, it is not being used properly (top link too long or too short for the task at hand)

As for the statement about box blades being the "most common counterbalance" for loader work...where did this (likely hearsay) factoid come from?

Not from us, we don't have a box blade, we have used a tiller for weight on our B7500 up to this point, now that I made one for it, we will probably use a weight barrel on it.

Aaron Z

 

[jeff9366]

{ DRAFT #1 IN PROGRESS }​

A compact tractor Box Blade is routinely used two ways.

1) Loosening dirt and packed aggregate with or without implement scarifiers, transporting accumulated material short distances, say fifty yards, then spreading material under operator control.

2) As counterbalance/ballast to maintain tractor rear wheels safely on ground when heavy lifts are made with the Front End Loader.



In all Box Blade applications WEIGHT PER UNIT OF WIDTH is a key specification.

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1) Loosening dirt and packed aggregate with or without implement scarifiers, then transporting loose material short distances, say fifty yards.

Boxing and transporting dirt is ground contact work. Tractor weight and implement weight are your friends in ground contact work. Hard, rocky, high clay content soil or aggregate require a heavier Box Blade to strip and accumulate thin material slices in the box, in front of the moldboard. Tractor horsepower is perhaps tertiary, trailing tractor weight, Box Blade weight and traction provided by four-wheel-drive.

Box Blades do not cut acceptably, at least for me, until weight is at least 100 pounds per foot of width. Hard, rocky, high clay content soil or aggregate require more Box Blade weight. My Box Blade is 125 pounds per foot of width. Mid-weight compact tractors, 4,000 pounds bare tractor weight, can pull laden Box Blades 150 pounds per foot of width.

Box Blade should be as wide as tractor's rear tires or a bit wider in order to clear space for rear tires during repeated scrapes in one trench. Photo #1.


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2) As counterbalance/ballast to maintain tractor rear wheels safely on ground when heavy lifts are made with the Front End Loader. Photo #3, #4.

Bare tractors are designed with a weight distribution of 40% front, 60% rear.

Add a Front End Loader and the weight distribution becomes 50% front, 50% rear. (+/-)

Fill the bucket and the weight moves forward, leveraged by low-forward position of a laden bucket.
Could be 60% front, 40% rear. (Tractor wheelbase affects weight distribution.)

Rear wheels may not lift from level ground but they will certainly be "light" if bucket payload is wet. Hazardous transporting wet FEL load over soft or uneven ground.

Green tree trunk sections and laden pallets on pallet forks are often heavier than wet bucket loads. Pallets protrude. Weight distribution could be 70% front, 30% rear. Probability of rear wheels lifting, pivoting on the relatively weak front axle, which may not be perpendicular to tractor frame. Ripe conditions for tractor rollover.

Suffecient Three Point Hitch counterbalance restores weight distribution to 40% front, 60% rear. (+/-)

With "loaded" rear tires a Box Blade weight of 120 (+/-) pounds per foot of width is reasonable counterbalance for heavy, not max, FEL lifts.

When rear tires are inflated with air Box Blade weight of 150 (+/-) pounds per foot of width is desirable counterbalance for heavier FEL lifts.

For exceptionally heavy lifts, with a Loader with above average lift capacity, an implement with weight of 200 pounds per foot of width, or an implement protruding farther to the rear, increasing implement leverage, should replace the Box Blade. Examples: Disc Harrow with 22" or greater diameter pans, Rotary Cutter with Category 4 drive line.

 

[majorwager]

A compact tractor Box Blade is routinely used two ways.
1) Loosening dirt and packed aggregate with or without implement scarifiers, then transporting loose material short distances.
2) As counterbalance/ballast to maintain tractor rear wheels safely on ground when heavy lifts are made with the Front End Loader.

In both Box Blade applications weight per unit of width is a key specification.

This of course is wholly dependent upon the application. The heavier implement requires the larger heavier tractor.
Again the OP subscribes to the "one size fits all" mantra. Many folks employ smaller tractors, lighter proportionate implements, and are quite satisfied w/ the result. They may invest slightly more seat time and effort in exchange for eliminating the burden of purchasing more tractor than necessary.

There is a common theme to some threads and even more postings. Folks have a tendency to only view the tasks desired by others, through their own prism. This method serves only to obfuscate a solution for the questioner.

Jeffy's photos of his deep excavation w/ a box blade can be very different from the member that seeks to repair a few driveway potholes, or scrape a thin layer of new stone over a limited area.

It becomes a" my way or the highway " scenario and if one isn't willing to equip their arsenal for heavy highway construction, they are facing eminent doom and financial disaster. It is ludicrous to saddle folks w/ needless debt and expense for tasks they have no intention to pursue.

The actual truth is that even w/ all the gadgets the OP claims are essential equipment, I can and have accomplished in an hour or two, what the OP takes all day to perform w/ a souped up compact tractor. Doubt the OP has ever operated (the equivalent of) deere 550 crawler dozer
Or deere 544 wheel loader. Compact tractors DO NOt build roads and wannabe homeowners can only pretend to mirror the real machines doing this type of work.

Slash pine and many countless others on these forums have attested numerous times. Smaller tractors w/ properly matched implements just take more time to deliver the same result. A repeated theme for emphasis !! Large tractors have their role in task performance and if warrented, by all means, have at it. I have A Deere 5075m w/ FEL and a 225 hp Case on the other farm that can accomplish real work.

But one size does NOT suit all folks and new buyers do not ALL require purchases that amount to extreme overkill.

 

[Diggin It]

48" Tiller seems to work well for me, as does the backhoe.

With a paved driveway, I really have no use for a box Blade that I know of. Some other form of blade or drag to smooth tilled ground ... maybe. At least until or unless I can get used to using the loader for that process.