Grading Box Blade woes and floating

[lootiejay]

So in the past week or so I have had about 30 hours seat time and it has been LOVELY. I feel like a big kid.

I dug a trench, hauled things, scraped concrete and it has been a joy. 2 days ago my wife says, "You bought it to fix the driveway, can you please go fix the driveway?"
So I went out there with the box blade after watching nearly every YouTube video I could and I have to say I officially MANGLED the living **** out of it.

I dropped the scarifiers(sp), drove slow, and then raised them and put the box in float. Every video I watched saif that putting it in float will allow it to roll over the surface / contour of the ground.
However I end up with a box full of dirt that never leaves the box. Of course, I raise the box slightly but it is always too much or too little and I end up just dragging dirt aimlessly or leaving huge mounds.
I know this will take time to learn but I envy these guys I see doing this on a fairly regular basis. I am so ashamed of the mess I made I wont even post a picture.

Ultimately, can someone explain EXACTLY w=hat floating the box blade is supposed to do? Also, is there anything wrong with using the FEL to level out my work instead of the box blade? I am able to do a MUCH better job using the FEL than the box scraper.

 

[/pine]

How are you putting it in float? you mean the hydraulic top link? almost all three point hitches are automatically always in float (no downward pressure)...

A box blade will only fill if the forward cutting edge is set to cut (shortened top link)...passing over low areas with the top link extended will normally deposit the payload into the low spots...

 

[oosik]

I don't know that there are any secrets. I know it takes a lot of experience to successfully operate a lot of ground engagement implements. Example - box blade and rear blade.

I can screw up this one problem section of my driveway with my rear blade, so fast, makes my head spin. Then I back drag with the bucket on the FEL and smooth all my digs, chips, lumps and furrows. Looks pretty good then. I've tried draft control with the rear blade - no joy for me.

I will say - I'm almost good with the rear blade. With the box blade - God save the Queen - look out, here he comes again!!! Six foot wide gouges and many "drop mounds".

 

[donaldj]

So in the past week or so I have had about 30 hours seat time and it has been LOVELY. I feel like a big kid.

I dug a trench, hauled things, scraped concrete and it has been a joy. 2 days ago my wife says, "You bought it to fix the driveway, can you please go fix the driveway?"
So I went out there with the box blade after watching nearly every YouTube video I could and I have to say I officially MANGLED the living **** out of it.

I dropped the scarifiers(sp), drove slow, and then raised them and put the box in float. Every video I watched saif that putting it in float will allow it to roll over the surface / contour of the ground.
However I end up with a box full of dirt that never leaves the box. Of course, I raise the box slightly but it is always too much or too little and I end up just dragging dirt aimlessly or leaving huge mounds.
I know this will take time to learn but I envy these guys I see doing this on a fairly regular basis. I am so ashamed of the mess I made I wont even post a picture.

Ultimately, can someone explain EXACTLY w=hat floating the box blade is supposed to do? Also, is there anything wrong with using the FEL to level out my work instead of the box blade? I am able to do a MUCH better job using the FEL than the box scraper.

When your load in the box blade gets too heavy and starts to bog down the tractor, the float feature lifts the blade up slightly, letting material out, and reducing the engine load. It works for situations where you'll be going over an area multiple times and can tolerate initial unevenness. I kinda widh there was a 'throttle float' that adjusted RPM to prevent bogging, too.

 

[/pine]

I don't know that there are any secrets....

The one an only secret is no secret...it's hydraulic T&T...without hydraulics mastering a box blade is next to impossible period...!

T&T in a matter of a few of hours can turn the worst hack in the world with box blade into looking like they know what they're doing and it just keeps getting better and better...

 

[Ritothebull]

I ran all kinds of heavy equipment when I was a kid with no trouble but I found that doing any kind of respectable looking work with a box blade to be a real pain in the ***, and the guys on you tube might as well be using Tonka toys for the stuff their pushing around. I'd like to see them come grade my road with all the different types of materials that have been put down over the years, and then theres the hills and dips to deal with as well. Probably the most important thing I learned is that once you start to do your finish grade allways keep some material in your blade or it will tend to get choppy, that is unless your lucky enough to be working with beach sand or some real fine material on a perfectly level area like those guys.

 

[lootiejay]

I am thinking about getting a TnT installed so I dont end up loosing my mind.
I mean, I am pretty decent when trying to do anything else but I just cant seem to get things going with the box blade...

I am thinking a land plane would be easier to use but I might as well just by the TnT first and then look at a land plane at a later date.

I put the blade in float by lowering the 3 point all the way down, on the 2501 it says the lowest position puts the 3 point hitch in float.

 

[oosik]

You WILL find that your box blade is a very useful implement WHEN you get that hydraulic top link. It allow rapid and very precise change between tipped forward and cutting - tipped back and discharging. Trying to successfully/precisely use a box blade with a manual top link will drive you MAD.

When you drop the box blade down on the ground - IT IS IN FLOAT. The next thing you need to do is drive forward and either lengthen the top link and discharge any load in the box blade OR shorten the top link and the box blade will begin to dig and fill.

You will probably find that lengthening the top link will not dump all the material contained in the box blade. You may need to lift the unit, shorten the top link and dump what is in the box.

Its an art - with practice and experience you will get it down.

 

[disorderly]

I dropped the scarifiers(sp), drove slow, and then raised them and put the box in float. Every video I watched saif that putting it in float will allow it to roll over the surface / contour of the ground.
However I end up with a box full of dirt that never leaves the box. Of course, I raise the box slightly but it is always too much or too little and I end up just dragging dirt aimlessly or leaving huge mounds.
I know this will take time to learn but I envy these guys I see doing this on a fairly regular basis. I am so ashamed of the mess I made I wont even post a picture.

Ultimately, can someone explain EXACTLY w=hat floating the box blade is supposed to do? Also, is there anything wrong with using the FEL to level out my work instead of the box blade? I am able to do a MUCH better job using the FEL than the box scraper.

Its hard to give you advice on this without knowing what your driveway looks like or what problems you're trying to fix. I have a video on youtube about box blading. In my case I don't use float. I just use the adjustable stops on my three point lever. If its collecting too much I raise it a little and too little I drop it a bit.

Right off the bat though, you say that you're floating the box blade. Do you mean that or are you talking about the draft control?

Unless you're dealing with some really hard packed gravel or something in the driveway where the box blade isn't wanting to bite into the material you probably don't need the scarifiers. For me I only use them on the driveway when its been really dry and and I have big potholes that I need a lot of material to fill.

 

[Oldoak]

Your 3Pt hitch is always in float whether you lower it partially or as low as it can go. It's just a matter of how low the implement will follow along.

I wouldn't expect a TNT to be the "end all" to your box blade operating problems". Box blades were in use long before people ever heard of TnT or could even afford such a convenience. Practice and patiences as you get more experience over time will improve your skills more than anything else.

 

[YLee Kioti]

So a few points made that did not get elaborated upon.
One is how you set your BB. Once you have roughed up the driveway; then the BB can be tilted to be level or slightly tilted up to minimize cutting into the dirt.
The back blade then should feather out your work. It also depends if you have a fixed blade or a hinged blade as well.
Don't know if you watched 'Dave knows how', he's bit slow but very meticulous on explaining how and why of most common implements.

You did not mention but does your tractor have draft control?
This can come in handy when wanting to control depth and it will float and try to maintain the level that has been set.

Does the drive need a crown to allow water run off? Now it will start to get fun! Level out drive first, then adjust BB to a slight tilt maybe 5 or 10 degrees (that's a SWAG, so don't sweat it heh). Once BB side tilt is adjusted then run with the low side of BB towards the edge of drive and chug ah-lug until both sides are trimmed and the center will have a slight elevation, helping water run off.


After that, from my limited experience it's all about seat time. Your drive is unique to you alone.
I encourage you to not be skeered of screwing up. We all started at point zero.
patience (not a virtue I possess ) comes in handy do not get in a hurry.
best regards....

 

[lootiejay]

What is weird is that there are small areas where it does precisely what I want when it is in float. then there are other areas where it just gathers as much crap as possible and never discharges anything anywhere.

I think I am just anxious and I am over / under thinking LOL. I appreciate the encouragement though

 

[lootiejay]

Wow you guys are the real deal in regards to response...
I have a completely dirt 500 ft driveway. it is a weird mix of clay and topsoil that slopes to one side for about 80 percent of it's length.
It was hard packed until I ran the scarifiers through it due to a number of ruts etc...

I dropped my blade into Float position (1) on my 2501, and started dragging and it backed the box, but nothing ever exits the box, it basically stays full for the full distance.
The problem is trying to find JUUUUUUUST the right spot where it isn't to high to dump the entire load and not too low to prevent anything from exiting. By gods right hand I am going to get this to work LOL.

It is actually a load of fun for me, it just sucks to watch the wife looking at me through the window wondering what I am doing. I appreciate the responses.
Tomorrow I am off and plan to put some more seat time into it, I will post some pics of my royal mess.

 

[disorderly]

Wow you guys are the real deal in regards to response...
I have a completely dirt 500 ft driveway. it is a weird mix of clay and topsoil that slopes to one side for about 80 percent of it's length.
It was hard packed until I ran the scarifiers through it due to a number of ruts etc...

I dropped my blade into Float position (1) on my 2501, and started dragging and it backed the box, but nothing ever exits the box, it basically stays full for the full distance.
The problem is trying to find JUUUUUUUST the right spot where it isn't to high to dump the entire load and not too low to prevent anything from exiting. By gods right hand I am going to get this to work LOL.

It is actually a load of fun for me, it just sucks to watch the wife looking at me through the window wondering what I am doing. I appreciate the responses.
Tomorrow I am off and plan to put some more seat time into it, I will post some pics of my royal mess.

Did you get the ruts filled in?

I'm not familiar with your tractor but I'm not totally convinced the float position that you are referring to has anything to do with your three point implement.

When I find that my wife is doing things like that I usually insist that she come join me and provide some input on whats working or what isn't. Its also good to help her understand that its more complicated then simply clicking a button on the dash.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Most of these guys on TBN are so experienced it's probably second-nature to them.... Me, I spent a year learning to box-blade last year so my mistakes and lessons are pretty fresh.

We will need to see pics of your driveway, like everyone else said. No shame.

 

[Jstpssng]

So in the past week or so I have had about 30 hours seat time and it has been LOVELY. I feel like a big kid.

I dug a trench, hauled things, scraped concrete and it has been a joy. 2 days ago my wife says, "You bought it to fix the driveway, can you please go fix the driveway?"
So I went out there with the box blade after watching nearly every YouTube video I could and I have to say I officially MANGLED the living **** out of it.

I dropped the scarifiers(sp), drove slow, and then raised them and put the box in float. Every video I watched saif that putting it in float will allow it to roll over the surface / contour of the ground.
However I end up with a box full of dirt that never leaves the box. Of course, I raise the box slightly but it is always too much or too little and I end up just dragging dirt aimlessly or leaving huge mounds.
I know this will take time to learn but I envy these guys I see doing this on a fairly regular basis. I am so ashamed of the mess I made I wont even post a picture.

Ultimately, can someone explain EXACTLY w=hat floating the box blade is supposed to do? Also, is there anything wrong with using the FEL to level out my work instead of the box blade? I am able to do a MUCH better job using the FEL than the box scraper.

If that's what works best for you, there's no reason why you shouldn't. This isn't an Olympic event where you're graded on style, the goal is to get a smooth driveway. With practice you will get better, but I too find it a heck of a lot easier to back drag with the bucket. I hate looking backward all of the time. My neck and back don't like me afterward, either.

 

[LouNY]

Three point controls will have either position and or draft control;

position control- the lift arms will try and drop to the position the control is placed in, all the way down, half way, three quarters it only has gravity to drop with,
the implement you are pulling will try to get to that depth, you can see how that works by lowering your implement in small increments and
watching it once it hits the ground it will not drop any more till you start moving and it is able to cut its way lower, it also will not go any
higher then you tell it to by the position control.

Draft control- will lower the same way but once you start pulling a load as the load builds up at a certain point the lift arms will raise up reduce the load
as the load reduces the arms will attempt to lower to the position control point if the load does not increase above the draft control point
it will run in position control if the load increases again above the draft control point it will again raise the lift arms to reduce the draft (pull)
as the load decreases the arms will again lower.

Draft control will override position control as a means to try and keep the pulling load from increasing above the draft control setpoint, also draft sensitivity is
adjusted either by a control and or the position of the top link in the tractor.

 

[kthompson]

I am not the biggest fan of a box blade to me they can be touchy. Even moody. LOL I began with rear blade and used one a good bit before ever saw a box blade. To me rear blade is easier to grade with than box blade but there are those who will argue the box blade is better. To me slow is your friend with box blade. Do not run tractor ground speed to fast as it allows blade to bounce ever so lightly to even enough you can see it. Slow steady speed helps keep the blade in steady contact with what you are moving. The other thing is don't go too fast with the depth you are cutting. Take light cuts to the blade is not all of sudden digging in and then coming up making ridges. I do not use any blade box or rear blade with lift all the way down unless it needs to be that low to reach what is being cut. I do not use a hyd top link on any rear blade but have on rear scoop and I want the stiffness of the steel third arm. Maybe needed larger hyd cylinder. I normally set my front edge to cut, not sharp angle but to cut. I control the depth not with float which is no real control to me, neither is draft for controlling leveling dirt or never has worked for me.

Now if you just want to smooth soft dirt then tilt the blade backwards to get the cutting edge just clearing. One issue you are and will fight with the blade you have is it is so near the rear wheels which are going up and down and the blade follows that movement. If you can install wheels on the box blade behind the blade that will help greatly as the blade then will follow over partly leveled dirt and not the rougher ground the tractor tires are running over.

 

[Oldoak]

If you can install wheels on the box blade behind the blade that will help greatly as the blade then will follow over partly leveled dirt and not the rougher ground the tractor tires are running over.

Now that is where I find gauge wheels attached behind a back blade to be really handy.

I do all my finishing work that way. But I prefer ripper teeth to loosen packed dirt and hard pan rather than using the back blade.

 

[DwayneB]

Like the other guy said if your tractor has position and draft control you can do a decent job of leveling. But even then I always use my loader to back drag it really smooth. A hydraulic top link helps a lot also. And lots of practice.