Tig
Veteran Member
I've come to peace with the idea that I need training wheels on my tractor. 
Box Scraper Box Blade
- Thread starter jshbryan
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kwolfe
Platinum Member
You are in good company Tig. I am making a set of wheels for my box blade. Hopefully I will have a chance to test them out this weekend.
Greg,
I don't think that TNT and guage wheels perform the same function at all. TNT is another tool that keeps our buts in the seat and saves time. So are guage wheels. The wheels allow for more accurate grading without the need to constantly adjust your 3pt. Just set them and start driving around.
Greg,
I don't think that TNT and guage wheels perform the same function at all. TNT is another tool that keeps our buts in the seat and saves time. So are guage wheels. The wheels allow for more accurate grading without the need to constantly adjust your 3pt. Just set them and start driving around.
3RRL
Super Member
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- 55HP 4WD KAMA 554 and 4 x 4 Jinma 284
I have to agree with you kwolfe.
Even with TNT, if your tractor is going over rough terrain the boxblade will follow the ups and downs of the tractor. With TNT, you can adjust on the fly to compensate but it is still hard until you get the terrain fairly flat, so your tractor wheels aren't going up and down bumps and dips so much. Using your 3pt float usually helps, but the boxblade will still ride over some of those bumps only cutting the tops off a little at a time.
With gage wheels, and the 3pt in float, the box blade rides over the surface the gage wheels are on. This may still not give you the desired results of a flat grade since the tractor is still going over bumps and dips. However, the gage wheels position the boxblade more to the cut it has just made. I can see gage wheels working great once you have the surface fairly level and the cut the boxblade makes is really level.
One way I get the bumps and dip out in a hurry, is I back doze the boxblade a lot. I cut the tops of the bumps off and then, my tractor tires are now on the cut surface I just made. This is also great for slanting and tilting a road or trail. Tilt the side link to get the bank angle you want and cut in reverse. The tractor tires are now on the banked surface you just made. Then I go forward and drag the boxblade to get a really smooth surface.
One thing about back dozing though, The drag links are made to pull, obviously, so when pushing with them reverse, you must be super careful not to bend them. I have pretzeled mine doing it. Since then, I reinforced them with a "T" bar on the bottom to make them twice as strong for pushing. Since doing that, I have had no further failures. The boxblade is an effective tool and back dozing is an effective method to use to initially get the humps and bumps out in a hurry. Then start dragging the boxblade for a really good smooth surface.
Check some of the links I posted above. Hope that helps.
Even with TNT, if your tractor is going over rough terrain the boxblade will follow the ups and downs of the tractor. With TNT, you can adjust on the fly to compensate but it is still hard until you get the terrain fairly flat, so your tractor wheels aren't going up and down bumps and dips so much. Using your 3pt float usually helps, but the boxblade will still ride over some of those bumps only cutting the tops off a little at a time.
With gage wheels, and the 3pt in float, the box blade rides over the surface the gage wheels are on. This may still not give you the desired results of a flat grade since the tractor is still going over bumps and dips. However, the gage wheels position the boxblade more to the cut it has just made. I can see gage wheels working great once you have the surface fairly level and the cut the boxblade makes is really level.
One way I get the bumps and dip out in a hurry, is I back doze the boxblade a lot. I cut the tops of the bumps off and then, my tractor tires are now on the cut surface I just made. This is also great for slanting and tilting a road or trail. Tilt the side link to get the bank angle you want and cut in reverse. The tractor tires are now on the banked surface you just made. Then I go forward and drag the boxblade to get a really smooth surface.
One thing about back dozing though, The drag links are made to pull, obviously, so when pushing with them reverse, you must be super careful not to bend them. I have pretzeled mine doing it. Since then, I reinforced them with a "T" bar on the bottom to make them twice as strong for pushing. Since doing that, I have had no further failures. The boxblade is an effective tool and back dozing is an effective method to use to initially get the humps and bumps out in a hurry. Then start dragging the boxblade for a really good smooth surface.
Check some of the links I posted above. Hope that helps.
greg_g
Super Member
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- 6,126
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- Western Kentucky
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- JD3720 Cab, 300X loader with 4-in-1 bucket
I'm reading these arguments, but they don't compute. I really don't see where TNT has anything to do with terrain following in the first place. I mentioned it from the standpoint of enhancing BB operability in general. The specific issue you guys are calling terrain following is avoidable.
If you lengthen your sidelinks for maximum travel - and your hydraulic flow control for max drop speed - the BB will stay on the ground for nearly everything short of dropping the front wheels over a cliff. TNT shows it's strength in being able to remotely change the pitch of front rear (top) and the side-to-side (tilt) angles of attack. To complement that, a competent draft control comes in very handy to lift the BB back to your desired operating depth when the scarifiers start dragging it down too deep. That's not really terrain following either, assuming again the sidelinks are adjusted to a proper length for BB use.
If the sidelinks and hydraulics are set right, basic position control (and a nice heavy BB) is all you need to avoid what you're calling "terrain following". Draft control might assist in some situations. TNT doesn't enter the equation.
But the test of fire is this; how many BB manufacturers offer gauge wheels as an option? If you agree that the answer may be somewhere close to zero, it must be because manufacturers assume users will set linkage and hydraulics correctly to use their product.
//greg//
If you lengthen your sidelinks for maximum travel - and your hydraulic flow control for max drop speed - the BB will stay on the ground for nearly everything short of dropping the front wheels over a cliff. TNT shows it's strength in being able to remotely change the pitch of front rear (top) and the side-to-side (tilt) angles of attack. To complement that, a competent draft control comes in very handy to lift the BB back to your desired operating depth when the scarifiers start dragging it down too deep. That's not really terrain following either, assuming again the sidelinks are adjusted to a proper length for BB use.
If the sidelinks and hydraulics are set right, basic position control (and a nice heavy BB) is all you need to avoid what you're calling "terrain following". Draft control might assist in some situations. TNT doesn't enter the equation.
But the test of fire is this; how many BB manufacturers offer gauge wheels as an option? If you agree that the answer may be somewhere close to zero, it must be because manufacturers assume users will set linkage and hydraulics correctly to use their product.
//greg//
HomeBrew2
Banned
For the lazy and unskilled with ADD, such as I, training wheels on the box blade, rear blade and rake get all my jobs done fast and exactly the way I want the finished product. 'course, I'm not in-training, I use them all the time except for when needing to hog a lot of material out, fast. Interestingly, I have thought about TnT, seriously, a couple of times ... haven't found the need. Usually one top link setting is fine for each phase of a job and, when change is needed, just relaxing the 3PH and twisting the link a couple of turns is all that's needed. Gauge wheels: the couple hours and few dollars I spent fabbing something up.
3RRL
Super Member
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- 55HP 4WD KAMA 554 and 4 x 4 Jinma 284
Greg,
I'm reading these arguments, but they don't compute. I really don't see where TNT has anything to do with terrain following in the first place. I mentioned it from the standpoint of enhancing BB operability in general. The specific issue you guys are calling terrain following is avoidable.
This I agree with. TNT is an excellent operating system for positioning your boxblade.
If you lengthen your sidelinks for maximum travel - and your hydraulic flow control for max drop speed - the BB will stay on the ground for nearly everything short of dropping the front wheels over a cliff.
This obviously depends on how hard the ground is. You can't tell me when you drag your boxblade over super hard ground, it comes out flat behind you every time? Are you trying to tell me you've NEVER had your boxblade follow the terrain? I'll bet even with the side links adjusted all the way down your boxblade follows the terrain on super hard ground, unless your dirt is really soft. I can see we might be operating our equipment under different circumstances? IMO, different soil conditions requires different techniques.
If the side links and hydraulics are set right, basic position control (and a nice heavy BB) is all you need to avoid what you're calling "terrain following". Draft control might assist in some situations. TNT doesn't enter the equation.
My boxblade is super heavy, about 1,000 lbs and it still does not always cut the hard packed decomposed granite where I live. Maybe yours is heavier than that? Sometimes, I've even had the scarifiers bounce off it before. If it gets a bite, it will dig in, but just dragging the blade cuts very little on the hard really stuff.. At that time it's following the terrain. That's what I was talking about.
I'm not disputing that you get yours to cut when set properly, I'm talking about what happens on super hard packed dirt or DG like mine. It takes aggressive measures to knock down those humps and bumps. The loose or soft stuff goes easy, yeah I agree.
I'm reading these arguments, but they don't compute. I really don't see where TNT has anything to do with terrain following in the first place. I mentioned it from the standpoint of enhancing BB operability in general. The specific issue you guys are calling terrain following is avoidable.
This I agree with. TNT is an excellent operating system for positioning your boxblade.
If you lengthen your sidelinks for maximum travel - and your hydraulic flow control for max drop speed - the BB will stay on the ground for nearly everything short of dropping the front wheels over a cliff.
This obviously depends on how hard the ground is. You can't tell me when you drag your boxblade over super hard ground, it comes out flat behind you every time? Are you trying to tell me you've NEVER had your boxblade follow the terrain? I'll bet even with the side links adjusted all the way down your boxblade follows the terrain on super hard ground, unless your dirt is really soft. I can see we might be operating our equipment under different circumstances? IMO, different soil conditions requires different techniques.
If the side links and hydraulics are set right, basic position control (and a nice heavy BB) is all you need to avoid what you're calling "terrain following". Draft control might assist in some situations. TNT doesn't enter the equation.
My boxblade is super heavy, about 1,000 lbs and it still does not always cut the hard packed decomposed granite where I live. Maybe yours is heavier than that? Sometimes, I've even had the scarifiers bounce off it before. If it gets a bite, it will dig in, but just dragging the blade cuts very little on the hard really stuff.. At that time it's following the terrain. That's what I was talking about.
I'm not disputing that you get yours to cut when set properly, I'm talking about what happens on super hard packed dirt or DG like mine. It takes aggressive measures to knock down those humps and bumps. The loose or soft stuff goes easy, yeah I agree.
HomeBrew2
Banned
It's probably just me but, for my DG and/or clay soils, I consider ripping a totally different operation than scraping/blading. Getting soil ready for scraping requires a different mindset, equipment settings and procedures. My experience has been that ripping produces anything from fines to 12" clay clods, so I rip then roll all clods of any size to a managable consistancy, and maybe water. THEN, I will get into scraping mode ... when the dirt is able to be massaged.
workinallthetime
Veteran Member
i had a box balde on the old mf75 and another one on the 318a deere but when i bought the bx23 i wanted one but did not buy one. now i have a b3030 and still dont have one. i feel im good enough with the fel to not use one. ive spent many a day with my neck cranked around watching the boxblade and didint enjoy it at all. i like using the fel because everything is upfront and i can adjust on the fly for whats going on. box blades are nice but not for this kubota kowboy,lol
greg_g
Super Member
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- JD3720 Cab, 300X loader with 4-in-1 bucket
Mine's only a 500 pound six footer, yet I don't have the issues you describe - because I use the scarifiers to render the soil into something the blades and the box can then move/grade/level. Sounds like you're trying to do everything in one pass - and quite obviously realizing it can't be done.3RRL said:
First thing I do is open up the flow control and lengthen the sidelinks. Then I drop one or more scarifiers as required - set the draft control depth - and pull the toplink up short for initial passes. That configuration digs/tears/loosens, giving me some material to work with. I get the impression you're just trying to scrape/push it off the top. When the scarifiers have given me some material to work with, I then extend the toplink and put the box and/or the blades to work. That's why having the HTL is so handy - I can use scarifiers in a forward gear, then tip the box back, and use the blade in reverse. A lot of toplink, and the rear facing blade cuts/spreads. A little less toplink and the forward facing blade works (in a forward gear). With the toplink set for a level box and scarifiers lifted, you put the box to work moving material.
Boxblades are very versatile when used to their full capability. To obtain that capability means using the appropriate combination of aggression, direction, hydraulics, cutting angle, tilt angle, and depth for the task and conditions at hand. But if all one uses it for is scraping, the money would probably have been better spent on a big rear grader blade.
//greg//
greg_g
Super Member
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- JD3720 Cab, 300X loader with 4-in-1 bucket
I believe if I had to remove a backhoe just to mount a boxblade, it would give me more incentive to try and make my loader do a boxblade imitation tooworkinallthetime said:
//greg//