Brake pedal return spring

[Grand_Pooba]

My brake pedal is not returning to it's proper position on my CT230. I have to reach down and pull up on the pedal to release the brakes each time. The service manual mentions a "brake pedal return spring" but doesn't show it in any of the diagrams. Anybody know where it's located?

Thanks.

 

[fatboycowen]

Mine is the same. Follow the linkage all the way to the transaxle. On mine, the sticking is way back inside the transaxle. Haven't dug in to fix it yet.
On mine one side was much worse than the other. And it got so bad, I needed a hammer to free it. So, I disconnected one of the brakes. Now I only have 1, but have to lift the pedal to release it fully. Luckily it's not that hilly. I planned on fixing it much sooner, but haven't done it.

 

[winston1]

There are return springs up under the instrument panel. Instrument panel has to be removed to access them. Assuming you have been greasing your pivot points on your pedals? I am doubting your springs are loose or broken, would more likely be something corroding up.

 

[VashonFarmer]

I値l jump in as my left brake started hanging up. Noticed it right after I completed my 400 hour service. I have isolated the return spring under the dash and that is not where the problem is. I知 going to crack open the service manual tonight and see if I can find anything.

 

[VashonFarmer]

Looking at the service book and do not see anything internal in the brake case that would be involved in the return. I also only see one lube point in the linkage, which I have already greased. Think I will pull it back inside and take a closer look at the whole linkage (read disassemble) and see if that痴 where the hang up is.

 

[Grand_Pooba]

The service manual that I have (Kioti version) doesn't show the springs but I went onto the Bobcat parts website and found a better diagram that showed the springs. I'll try to find them tonight. My brake pedal moves freely right except right at the bottom when you are applying brake pressure. That's where they stick.

 

[VashonFarmer]

I知 afraid this is a bigger issue. My springs are fine and the pedal moves freely when the linkage is dropped.

My issue is only on the left. I pulled the push linkage off the levers on both sides. The right has several inches of free play by hand. The left cannot be moved at all without a mallot. I loosened the nut on top of the lever to see if it was just binding there, but no luck.

There has to be something in the brake housing causing the stiff action. Unfortunately it is a much bigger job to check that out. Remove the ROPS, drain the hydro fluid (that I just put in), pull the axle housing and then the brake housing.

Has anyone out there gone all the way in? The service manual has really good pics of the whole thing and I don稚 see where it would bind except maybe one or more of the balls is dislodged? Doesn稚 seem possible. They are wet brakes so it should not be a lube issue.

 

[fatboycowen]

That's the exact problem I have. Need a massive hammer to free it up, so I just disconnected that side. Haven't had the balls to dig in yet.

 

[winston1]

Have not been there, done that. Repair manual states 4 keys to correct "Braking power is trailed" (thinking that is big words for what you are experiencing).

1. Brake pedal clearance is to small. (Doubt that one.)
2. Cam plate balls are worn unequally.
3. Brake pedal return spring is worn or broken. (Seems you have eliminated that.)
4. Brake cam is corroded. (Shame you can't get to that without complete disassembly.)

Doesn't seem to complicated to get in there but no doubt would be considerable work. Seems most logical to me to be a corroded brake cam. O-ring on the outside of it so impossible to lubricate it.

 

[VashonFarmer]

I kinda wondered what they meant by "trailed". Probably right. I hadn't read that list very carefully, but it mentions the balls which had crossed my mind already. I may just need to bite the bullet and tear into it. Like Winston1 said, it looks simple but will take some real time. As long as I keep the hydro oil clean as I get it out, does anyone have an issue with re-using it? It has all of 20 minutes use right now.

Is there any way that I could have brought this issue out during the service I just finished? I can't really imagine how, but I had not noticed any issue prior. The hydro sump was on the low side of the stick before I started but not out of oil and I did the whole job in one shot so nothing sat dry. Aggravating.

 

[fatboycowen]

If you do dig in, would you be so kind as to photograph and tell us of your experience doing it?

 

[VashonFarmer]

fatboycowen, for sure. It will probably be at least a week or two, but I'll document as well as I can and post up here.

 

[VashonFarmer]

So I got into it today, and I know what the problem is, but not the solution. I'll post the pics and all that fun stuff soon.

For now I'll just tell you I got the brake housing off and one of my suspicions turned out to be true. The problem (at least on my machine) is the cam lever that goes thru the housing. It is so tight I can barely move it with a wrench and it has not begun to come out after repeated blows with a mallet. I have it sitting with some PB Blaster on it and will try again when I can get back to it.

Everything else looks fine. I measured the brake disk thickness as well as the spacer plate and they are barely worn at all. The balls are all nice and round and move freely in the guide plate. All the gears look perfect and the bearings turn smoothly.

I have a call into the service tech at the local Bobcat dealer and I hope he'll let me pick his brain on Monday. It seems that this could be fixable without buying parts.

The job is not that bad. I spent 3 1/2 hours on it today and I work slow on these things. With a little prep and study before hand, it's a satisfying job.

I've never posted pics here before, so as soon as I figure it all out I'll get them up.

 

[VashonFarmer]

Fatboycowen and Grand_Pooba, I'm curious... Are we all having the problem on the left brake?

 

[fatboycowen]

Mine is left

 

[VashonFarmer]

I believe I have the problem licked, so here's what I have done and know so far. I'll spread this out over a few posts. Note: after posting I see that my photos are out of order. The parts breakdown was supposed to be first, so scroll down for that, then go thru the rest.

First, a few words on safety. I'm sure you all are choir members, so forgive me for preaching to you, but I have actually seen people stuck under poorly supported work and I feel it is always worth mentioning.

I spent about 3 1/2 hours on the work done here and it was deliberately slow. I turned off the podcast I had on and switched to relaxing music. When jacking and supporting the tractor, please take the time to slow down and really think about your methods. I used two, 2 ton jack stands in positions where they are both taking some weight and left the floor jack in place, also taking weight. Do not put yourself under anything if you don't have to be there, especially if you are yarding on some stubborn bolt. Be safe. Thank you.

First, here is the parts breakdown, if you don't have the service manual.



The ROPS has to come off, and I have to work in a low ceiling area of our barn, so I started by taking the upper portion off where it hinges. Then I removed the 3 point hitch on the side I'm working on.

Then I took off the wheel and the fender. There are three bolts hiding under the lever cover to get the fender off. You could get away with the fender on, but it really clears up your work area.









Then I took off the left side of the ROPS.

 

[fatboycowen]

I'm so excited to see more.

 

[VashonFarmer]

Page two: Let's see if I can do better with the pics this time.

I should have mentioned earlier that when positioning the jack stands, think about leaving some room for the oil pan. The CT225 has about 8 gallons of hydro oil and I have a 5 gallon pan, so I did this in stages. Also, this oil only has about 20 minutes of use so I meticulously cleaned some containers and will reuse it. You'll need to drain from two spots. First get the main drain plug and you'll get 90% of the oil out. Then pull the plug on the inside of the brake housing. You might think there is not much oil left in there, but it still has some head pressure. If your pan in mearly under the plug, the oil will over shoot your pan and you will dump a bit on your previously clean floor. Also, have some kitty litter on hand.



The axle housing is about 70 pounds, so I took this advice from the manual. Use the bolts from the ROPS and support the housing before removing it. It really makes getting it off easy.



Pull all the bolts, and two nuts, from the axle housing. At the top and bottom you'll find two threaded holes. Clean them out and use two of the housing bolts to separate it from the brake housing.

 

[VashonFarmer]

Page three:

Set the axle housing to the side (you'll need it later).

Now we've made it to the root of the problem, the brake housing. Inside the axle housing, there are two bolts, one nut and two Allen bolts. I pulled them first, and since they sit in the hydro oil, I cleaned them and wrapped them in a towel for safe keeping.

To the left of that you'll find a series of bolts and one nut (forward of the brake lever). Pull these and remove the brake lever.



There are no happy separation bolt holes for the brake housing. I used a flat bar in the gap at the rear of the housing to break the seal. Then it was a slow process of coaxing the housing from the transmission. I should note here that the manual shows gaskets between both of the housings. In fact, all they use is gasket eliminator. For reassembly they state you can use any gasket maker of your choice, except RTV.



Here is a shot of the inboard side of the brake housing showing the brake itself.



On the transmission side is the ball housing. I pulled the ball housing off just to check it out, but it is not part of this issue (at least with my machine). It looked like it just came from the factory, which it should at only 430 hours.



It turns out that my problem is the cam lever is corroded into its hole. You can remove the shaft, cam plate, two friction plates and the spacer with the lever still in position. Here is a shot of what you are left with.



The offending part was jammed in so tight, I could barely get it to budge with a wrench and I could not get it out with a mallot. I let it soak for a day with a dose of PB Blaster and came back this afternoon.

 

[VashonFarmer]

Page 4? I think...

When I got back in the barn today I supported the housing on a couple 2x4s, put the nut back on, and gave it a few whacks with a rubber mallot. Out she came! I was so excited that I forgot to snap a pic before I set to cleaning it up. The outboard portion beyond the O-ring was pretty corroded. I cleaned it up with a Scotch pad, as well as the hole it sits in. Here it is after pulling the ring and cleaning.



I did get a shot of the hole before scrubbing it. You can see the last 1/4 inch is a bit ugly.



After scrubbing them back to a shine, the cam slides back is smoothly. My plan is to get a new O-ring and reassemble with a dose of lithium grease. I am still going to chat with the service guy at Bobcat on Monday to see if he has anything to add. But I believe this is going to solve it!

I will post again after I get it back together and will include the torque values in case you don't have the service manual. I'm pretty happy with this job. I'll be into it for 6 hours or so of labor and $0! Can't beat that with a stick!