Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!!

   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #11  
I bent the bucket cylinder on my 48 hoe about 2 years ago. The problem they found on my 4400 was that the hydralic system was drawing in air on the suction side of the system. The air mixed with the fluid and this caused the relief valve to not operate properly. I have not had a problem since.
 
   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #12  
Hey guys, I geuss I'm having a hard time understanding where your dealers are coming from with some of the reasons for you bending cylinders. Please take a look at this thread for a little backround first. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=jdown&Number=162536&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1>Click here</A>. O.K. Now that you have read that, here is my problem. rjp, your dealer states that, "maybe he sold you too small of a machine". Hooking a root, a big rock, the Alaskan pipeline or whatever, is not going to cause a rod to bend because the equipment is too small. If the backhoe was too small, it would simply hit relief and stall, due to not having enough power to continue, that is unless, the backhoe main relief (max hyd pressure for the entire backhoe), or circuit relief (max hyd pressure for a single circuit of the backhoe) was improperly set, installed, or has somehow malfunctioned. Chris, I don't understand how a leaking suction line (that is the line that feeds the hyd pump from the reservoir) is going to cause a relief valve to malfunction, when a suction leak will cause the hyd pump to "cavitate" and not allow full system pressure to develop to the point of having enough "hydraulic power" to bend a cylinder rod. Even if there is air in the circuit. Air will compress, fluid does not. So if there is air in the system, that will compress. Once the air or cushion bleeds off it will eventually build to relief pressure and open the valve to relieve excess pressure, especially if the choice is opening the relief valve vs bending a rod. The path of least resistance rules are working for you here. I geuss my "bottom line' is this: Other than a system malfunction, the only other time I have seen cylinders bend, was usually due to using the tractor drive system to override the hyds, a loose or falling out cylinder pin, extreme wear in the cyl pins, or just plain smacking in to something. Please guys don't get me wrong, I'm not taking shots here. I just don't see stuff adding up the way it's supposed to.
 
   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #13  
The local Green dealer here has a new 4310 in the shop for the second time in a month with a bent BH rod. Sounds like a widespread problem.
 
   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #14  
I have a new JD48 hoe on my 4710 and have abused it - No problems thus far! Knock-on-Wood!!!!!!
 
   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #15  
I have not actually seen a Bradco BH as no one stocks them around here. I said they are probably heavier duty. I would not buy another piece of machinery sight unseen after my experience with the JD BH. These are not serious machines although you could not tell it by the literature that JD put out. I did look at a JD 110 and the cylinder rods and BH components are substantially larger than on my 48 BH. In fact they make mine look more like a toy. The irony is that a 110 costs about the same as a 4700 with loader and BH event though it is twice the machine in my humble opinion. My dealer said he no longer sells the 4700/4710's since they let him sell the 110.
 
   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #16  
Keep trying and I can almost guarantee you will!!!
 
   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #17  
Hi Folks,

This thread seems to have brought an issue to light with the 48 hoe cylinder rods. Has Deere adressed this in any way via bullitens, notices, recalls, free repair etc?

I'm thinking back to that issue Deere had with the tires tearing up the turf with the 4300. There were actually ranges of serial numbers and dates to avoid. Has anyone heard of information this specific with regard to the 48 hoe?

I have tried the hoe (was very imprssed) before and I am planning to purchase one at the end of this month. In light of the info born out in this thread, I will be scrutinizing my dealer's repsponse to claims brought forth here.

If this were just a few random manufacturing defects, that is one thing (as long as Deere figures out what went wrong and offers to fix the hoe for free). However, if this is more widespread, then I may look to a different hoe. I would be putting the hoe on a 4310. I'd appreciate it if you would let me know if you folks have heard something specific and official from Deere or its dealer network. Better yet, do they publish their notification/bullitens on the website or is that kept hush hush?
Thanks,
J
 
   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #18  
JohnMiller3, you bring up a very good question. I just bought a new tractor, a Kioti, and while the manual is good about describing the safety factors and the mechanical aspects of starting, driving, stopping and shutting down the machine. It does not give a neophyte tractor owner advice on using the PTO effectively or even driving the tractor in the proper gear for control and efficiency. Now, how do we go about getting it without breaking our new toy?Short of going to a full time school does anyone have any ideas?
 
   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #19  
There used to be a Deere dealer who monitored this site and offered some great info on such things. I hope he's still around and can help you. Good luck.
 
   / Broken Hoe!!!!!!!!!!!!! #20  
After a period of lurking, this is my first post ( As my username suggests, I am a tractorless suburbanite ). However, I have some small experience with hydraulics, and offer an analogy that may make the real issue here a little clearer. ( Or may simply confuse anyone foolish enough to listen to me... )

In an electrical installation, some sort of over current protection is ( almost ) always provided. In the most common case, circuit breakers are installed in a house. There is a main breaker that is sized to the total allowable current for the entire system ( typically 200A for a new home ) and individual breakers for each branch circuit. These branch circuits are installed such that the conductors size used can carry the entire current allowed by the breaker. Put another way, the breaker will trip before the current capacity of the wiring is exceeded. It does not matter how big a load you plug in- the wiring should NEVER overheat; the breaker should trip. Different circuits have different capacity breakers, but have wiring appropriate for the maximum load.

In a smaller system, there may only a single breaker ( fuse / thermal cutout, etc. ) protecting the entire system, based on the power supply capacity. In this case, every portion of the system, regardless of what portion of the total current load of the system it is designed to utilize, should be capable of carrying current up to the breaker. In other words, if any portion of the system fails in an overcurrent mode ( typically a short ) it will carry current up to the point required to trip the breaker.

The application of this in this case is as follows. The hydraulic pump has a certain design capacity. We tend to focus on the flow (GPM) rating, but the one we are interested here is the pressure (PSI). There should be a relief valve ( the hydraulic equivalent of a circuit breaker ) installed such to prevent the pressure from exceeding the capacity of the pump, typically by providing a path to the reservoir when the design limit is exceeded. If this is the only pressure relief in the system, then every component in the system must be rated to this pressure or higher. On the other hand, individual circuits may have independent reliefs provided, to limit the pressure on that circuit below the system limit.

For instance, if the pump is rated to 2000 PSI, there must be an appropriate relief provided to ensure that this pressure is never exceeded, in the form of a 2000 PSI relief valve. ( Ignoring all working rating, safety margin, etc. factors. I'm not designing a system here, just waving my arms a lot... ) Every valve, hard line, hose, etc. connected directly to the high side of the system must be rated at or above 2000 PSI. Now let's say that we have a cylinder that has a 1000 PSI rating on an implement to be attached downstream of a valve. When the valve is opened and fluid flows into the cylinder, as long as the cylinder can move at a rate equal to the incoming flow un impeded, no problem. But if cylinder is stopped, slowed, or the opposing force is sufficient, the 2000 PSI will cause the cylinder to fail. ( Bending a rod is actually a fairly good way to fail- blowouts of hydraulic systems can easily kill. ) The solution is to provide a separate relief for the circuit set at or below the 1000 PSI rating. This allows the system to be rated to provide high pressure to implements/attachments that are so rated, while allowing lower rated implements to be safely attached.

Sorry about the length, and no I am not a hydraulic engineer, so if someone better qualified wants to correct any errors in this post, I would welcome it.

Peter
"No tractor of any color, just green with envy"
 

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