Bucket bleed down?

[ovrszd]

Not so sure...if I don't pin my backhoe, that sucker will fall to the ground within a day.

Yep. That's common.

 

[rScotty]

I was just wondering why the bucket stopped curling down. Concerned maybe I had broke something. The last time I took her out I was trying to dig the ground to no avail. Just bouncing the machine around atop the Frost.

The sometimes droop and sometimes not is nothing to worry about. My Kubota TLB did the same thing. It's not unusual for the rubber sealing rings throughout the hydraulic system controls and inside a hydraulic cylinder to conform to the cylinder walls before they begin to wear. Yours sounds normal to me.

On your second question, I don't think that I've ever heard any proof that allowing the bucket to droop has caused premature wear or any other problem. Again, any hoe is going to droop the bucket as it ages. They all do, and it generally takes many thousands of hours for enough ring and seal wear to happen so that it noticibly affects the curl strength of the bucket. For example, my M59 with 1000 hours will see the bucket start to droop a little overnight, but it takes days for it to point to the ground. On the older JD310 with 6000 hours the bucket starts to droop in a few hours. The point is that both machines droop the bucket, but I haven't noticed any lack of bucket curl force on either machine.

It sure doesn't surprise me that you couldn't cut through frozen ground with your machine. Our big JD has 100 hp and weighs ten tons but is still a little bit small and light for getting a bucket to penetrate frozen ground. Yes, it can be done...but doing so is really, really hard on the tractor. Now if I just absolutely had to poke a hole in frozen ground I'd probably go after the ground first with a hydraulic breaker instead of slamming the bucket down until something breaks..... Not recommended.

BTW, if you do find yourself needing to work in frozen ground, here's a link to the kind of tool normally used for penetrating frozen ground: http://www.plowsite.com/threads/new-hammer-breaker-for-my-310-sj-tc-john-deere.98704/

The machine it mounts on is the same as mine. Injun, you'd better take a deep breath before you read what he paid for the hydraulic breaker attachment in the pictures. Of course hydraulic breakers come in all sizes. It wouldn't surprise me if you could get one for your machine. Once you get past the frost, the normal procedure is to dismount the hydraulic breaker and put the bucket back on. Your tractor's bucket backhoe bucket will pop the crust loose pretty easily from below.

Now having said all of that, and getting back to the droopy bucket I will also say that I think it is a matter of good practice and good safety to either lower all hydraulics to the ground or else chain or pin them so that they cannot leak down. If you do that, you absolutely know it is safe; and it might just be good for the hydraulic system as well.
rScotty
BTW, a friend in S.F. builds what he calls Vindian MCs. Nifty machine.

 

[Indian MC]

The friction in the cylinder or linkage may have increased for some reason. With the engine off move the bucket control valve to lower the bucket. If it doesn't move it must be binding more than it was. Maybe it's just the low temperature?

Maybe the bucket pivot and linkage needs some lube.

I did as you suggested. The bucket curled down several inches and stopped. When the boom and dipper are pinned it cannot really touch the ground.
All the grease fittings were greased per the manual at the specified hours. I purchased one of those Dewalt 20v Grease guns. Man, that baby blows it out. I was done in under ten minutes.
The temps here have been above 30 and close to 50 for the last several days.

 

[dickfoster]

I did as you suggested. The bucket curled down several inches and stopped. When the boom and dipper are pinned it cannot really touch the ground.
All the grease fittings were greased per the manual at the specified hours. I purchased one of those Dewalt 20v Grease guns. Man, that baby blows it out. I was done in under ten minutes.
The temps here have been above 30 and close to 50 for the last several days.

I have the DeWalt gun too. For the ultimate setup, add a locknlube tip to it and you'll be glad you did. Thankfully it didn't cost anywhere near what the grease gun did.

 

[Indian MC]

Thank you rScotty for the exc info and advice.
I pretty much accomplished the same as this expensive attachment while using my " Old " Back and shoulders.
This unit would be great to dig into a large area.
It took me several hours with a bar. I bent the **** thing.
My two Septic tanks caps are less than 12" deep. The frost was 8" at best.
I didn't take the Kubota out and slam the bucket about the ground. (( Crazy )) I just scrapped with the teeth and tried to dig in.
It was useless, I put her away and broke out the bar to get it done by hand.
When I was in my 20's I worked Concrete Foundation Construction for a dozen or so years. I know how evil frost is.
As far as lowering all implements? I do this with the FEL.
The back hoe? I pin up the dipper and boom and leave the bucket to curl about.
The kubota rests in my Garage. The Backhoe Bucket is less than 2' short of the garage door at rest. ( I have work benches in front of the tractor ) I cannot lay the dipper and boom to the ground. If I did, I wouldn't be able to close my garage door.
She's pined up.. I only have the bucket to worry about.
It's better for me to have the bucket up tight rather then released and curled down.
No infants or children have ever been on my property. I don't have any kids. I don't have any friends visit with little kids.
If I were to lower the bucket, the teeth would be parallel to the floor... My German Shepherds would be at risk. My Shepherds run about in the shop.
It's better for me to have the teeth on the bucket tucked up and away tight above the ground.

 

[Indian MC]

I have the DeWalt gun too. For the ultimate setup, add a locknlube tip to it and you'll be glad you did. Thankfully it didn't cost anywhere near what the grease gun did.

What is a locknlube tip? She locks to the fittings very bigly now. The only crazy thing I have with the gun is sometimes it's hard to release the tip from the fitting. I have to slap it hard to the side, then a quick twist and pull for release.

 

[sixdogs]

It's been about a month now but when I went out in the barn a few days ago, the Kubota M6800 and M7040 were right where I left them. So was the Deere 5520. That was not expected and I wonder how they stayed up? I've never noticed any drift down but it has been a while.

The small Deere 790 was flat on the ground.

 

[Indian MC]

It's been about a month now but when I went out in the barn a few days ago, the Kubota M6800 and M7040 were right where I left them. So was the Deere 5520. That was not expected and I wonder how they stayed up? I've never noticed any drift down but it has been a while.

The small Deere 790 was flat on the ground.

OMG--- Awesome... Are you selling tickets?

 

[sixdogs]

OMG--- Awesome... Are you selling tickets?

Actually, I never leave them up but did this test because of a similar thread. I knew they stayed up but wanted to see what would happen. It's not something I ever thought about but I do hate drift and lucked out on these. Beats me.

 

[Indian MC]

I relaxed the backhoe bucket where the tractor sits.
I'm going to start her up today and run the controls and leave her up tight and then shut her down.
I'm wondering if she will drift again or stay up tight.
What is she supposed to do?
Is every machine different? Will your machine pick and choose from week to week as what to do while sitting?

 

[ovrszd]

Well if she's like most she'll do whatever she wants with her option of changing her mind open of course.

 

[LD1]

Do whatever you want, park however u want, think whatever you want.

You are trying to make an issue out of nothing. There is nothing wrong with your hydraulics.

 

[oldpilgrim]

Do whatever you want, park however u want, think whatever you want.

You are trying to make an issue out of nothing. There is nothing wrong with your hydraulics.

Yup. Most people would love to have your perceived problem.

What's next? Do you think you are using too little fuel?

 

[Indian MC]

Do whatever you want, park however u want, think whatever you want.

You are trying to make an issue out of nothing. There is nothing wrong with your hydraulics.

Cool. But,, Why do we even talk about this if there is not a standard to look for?

Ok,,, Drop down all your implements in case a baby is running about deciding to lay under your FEL. "Seriously " If you want or have brats why not take some responsibility to watch out for them? I don't have any babies or anyone else that is going to place their body underneath my implements.

 

[LD1]

Cool. But,, Why do we even talk about this if there is not a standard to look for?

Ok,,, Drop down all your implements in case a baby is running about deciding to lay under your FEL. "Seriously " If you want or have brats why not take some responsibility to watch out for them? I don't have any babies or anyone else that is going to place their body underneath my implements.

Not sure why you want to turn this personal and/or call peoples kids "brats".

Has nothing at all to do with kids.

Put the stuff on the ground because it takes the pressure off all of the hoses, seals, etc. Its about being good to the equipment, not treating it any harder than I need to.

You have a bucket, you leave a load suspended on the hydraulics, it is eventually gonna bleed down. How long it takes is based on several other factors. But control valves are designed with a little leakage rate, since there are no "Seals" and its a metal on metal spool that is machined to very tight tolerances. Warm fluid that has everything loosened up and flowing well....it will leak off faster. Cold thick oil...not as much.

You ask what it is "supposed" to do.....it is "supposed" to bleed off. How fast....again....a function of many variables.

If you dont want you "brat" dog running into the bucket, un-pin the boom and rest things on the ground.

 

[Indian MC]

Not sure why you want to turn this personal and/or call peoples kids "brats".

Has nothing at all to do with kids.

Put the stuff on the ground because it takes the pressure off all of the hoses, seals, etc. Its about being good to the equipment, not treating it any harder than I need to.

You have a bucket, you leave a load suspended on the hydraulics, it is eventually gonna bleed down. How long it takes is based on several other factors. But control valves are designed with a little leakage rate, since there are no "Seals" and its a metal on metal spool that is machined to very tight tolerances. Warm fluid that has everything loosened up and flowing well....it will leak off faster. Cold thick oil...not as much.

You ask what it is "supposed" to do.....it is "supposed" to bleed off. How fast....again....a function of many variables.

If you dont want you "brat" dog running into the bucket, un-pin the boom and rest things on the ground.

Apparently you didn't read through the thread. I wouldn't have a problem with unpinning the boom if I had the room to do so. I have a 26' deep garage with a work bench and other items in front of the tractor. If I released the hoe I wouldn't be able to close my garage door. I don't need Snow, Rain and Thugs coming into my Garage.

 

[sixdogs]

As mentioned earlier, my JD5520, Kub M6800 (2004 year) and M7040 have not dropped a lick in more than a month. Well, maybe the M6800 a whisker. I never leave them up but did it just to see what would happen. My JD 790 was flat on the ground in a week. I know the others aren't going down because of no leaks anywhere buy how come and why me and is this unusual or more typical?

 

[LD1]

At this point, I dont even know why this thread is still active and what question you are asking. IS it normal for something to bleed off a little even on a new tractor....YES. Is it also normal if it dont bleed off any noticeable amount....also yes.

If you want to leave the boom pinned, and want to be 100% sure the bucket dont move either.....manually fix the bucket into position. Devise a way to pin the bucket in place through the linkage or something.....chain the bucket in place....piece of angle or channel iron and block the cylinder rod, etc.

 

[ovrszd]

As mentioned earlier, my JD5520, Kub M6800 (2004 year) and M7040 have not dropped a lick in more than a month. Well, maybe the M6800 a whisker. I never leave them up but did it just to see what would happen. My JD 790 was flat on the ground in a week. I know the others aren't going down because of no leaks anywhere buy how come and why me and is this unusual or more typical?

I think your situation is an oddity. A good oddity.

 

[Indian MC]

Hey,,, I'm posting in the Hydraulics forum. I'm just wondering why my BH bucket just decided to stay up secured high and tight for several weeks

Previously? She was bleeding about since day one. Yes,,,after a few days coming down to rest.

Now? Nothing... Totally tight and locked.

COOL!