Building A House/Doing It Yourself/ICFs

[dmccarty]

MReeter,

I very aware of the stress involved with the extra work! I've basically doing the 9-10 hours work days and then going home to work on the "house." In this cause the house is only plans and such but I have been up passed midnight often over the last year working on things. All vacation and most weekends last year were scheduled for working on the property.

Thanks for the information!
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Hello Larry,

Nope, I have not read that book. I'll have to order it. In high school I wanted to be an architect and then I found out that I liked messing with computers. Computer worked paid more and was not as cyclic as building so I went for the keyboard instead of the hammer/pencil.

I could REALLY go OT talking about all software design and quality but I'll byte my tongue. One day the lawyers are going to find a way to get at the quality of software and there is going to be heck to pay. They already have nailed some navigation systems software. I think the real opening is going to be software accessibility for the disabled. But part of the problem is US. People want cheap and now adays free software. So it is going to be interesting!

Later...
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Thanks for the support Larry.

Did you know that Fine Homebuilding has a discussion site? Its pretty good.

I have read a few issue of Home Power as well. There is a Canadian company that is selling closed water/water treatment/septic systems. I think Maryland and maybe one other eastern state were permiting the system. Interesting idea I'm not sure I would want to fully partake in!

There is also a fairly good ICF web site www.icfweb.com. Its run by people who sell and design ICF so you have to keep that bias in mind.

Later...
Dan

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dan:
I'm a engineer and was very concerned about structural integrity of the ICF's before I started. Polysteel had some test reports and design information that I nagged the local rep into getting me. This answered most of my questions. The final step I took was to buy two of the forms, but them in a wood frame and poured them. I then took the foam off of one side. This should be a required selling tool for any rep that is selling this stuff. The internal beams that are formed and the complete fill of all the cavities sold me. When I built I over built due to lack of experience, I used the 12" forms were the 8" would have been adequate and I ending up using much more rebar than was required. I count this as part of the price of doing it your self.
Talk to the local ready mix guys, the only mix my guy will sell to pump in forms is 3000 psi instead of the standard 2500 psi as they had some problems when they made the 2500 thin enough to pump.
The local planinng & inspection knew about the forms and had no concerns nor did the bank.
Kelvin Gryder

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Jerry:
I also thought about the air duct in the ground for cooling. The problem is humidity. If during the summer the humidity is high and you just cool the air off to 50 or 60 degrees in your duct it will have near 100% humidity and the whole house will feel like a basement, cool but not real comfortable. And mildew will have run of the place. To use the ground for cooling you need a heat pump that dumps the heat into the ground and cools the air to a low enough temperature to reduce the moisture to acceptable level. Hope this helps.
Kelvin Gryder

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dan,
Speaking of Lawyers and software... there are some amazing programs out there - anything that will make lawyers disappear from the planet??

Don't know much about computers. Know a little about lawyers though.
Think they're the only subclass that tops mankind as a whole, in generally doing more harm than good!

What has this got to do with the "building a house" topic?
Do anything differently from what some bureaucratic "planning-commision" has decided you SHOULD do, and lawyers will soon be involved, on one side or the other, usually both! (guess who the real "winners" are

Apologies for the cynicism... I have an attack of it every time someone says "lawyers". like my Dad says - " It isn't fair to blame all of them for what 99% of them are like!".

Larry

 

[44hill]

I used BlueMax. I would probably use FormTech for any additions (Which we are planning.) I like the looks of them better. The house was 2500 sqft with 9' ceilings. I used a 2x2 footing all the way around. This was a single story unit built in Oklahoma. The utilities came through the footing with the exception of the gas line. I had precut a hole for it and then I decided to move the line and had to drill a hole for it.

The home is unbelievably cool in the summer and has held the heat very very well this cold winter. I have over an R30 in the ceiling.

I did sub out the 'mud & tape' and the concrete floor.

I did buy the BlueMaxx bracing when I poured the walls. I made 4 trips around on the pour with no blowouts.

 

[Rch]

THE JOURNAL OF LIGHT CONSRUCTION at http://www.jlconline.com/ is a great resource for all the things you guys are talking about. I remember an article about two years ago comparing the several foam block systems. http://www.jlconline.com/bookstore/books/construction_reference/ic850.html
To subscribe pretend you are a contractor- they have the notion that they are "for the trade only"

RCH

 

[Rodneyd]

Dan,
My brother just moved into an ICF house he build in Colorado Springs, Co. He did EVERYTHING himself. House has basement plus two story. Went to the roofline. Biggest problem was to ensure it was braced during pours and by all means, get some help from someone who has build one before. There are some tricks to doing it. He befriended someone in the area who just built one and used his advice. As for effeciency, last spring when it was still cold in Co., he used a small propane space heater, turned on low to heat the entire house so they could drywall. I visited this summer and was impressed how quiet the house was from outside noise and how constant the inside temperature remained during the day without air conditioning. This building method has intrigued me for many years, but after seeing his house, I am sold. They say it adds about 5% to cost of house but energy savings will more than pay back.

Rod

 

[MarkV]

What is the R value of walls built with the ICF systems? I would guess the furring for Drywall provides a chase for electrical runs, is that right?

 

[heehaw]

my better half an i have built 3 houses, or i should say, acted as our own contractor, and did a lot of the work ourselves; the only problem we ran into with the bank; the second house we waited till we had spent @ $30,000 before getting a loan; luckily we had a ledger and all receipts, they went thru them with a fine tooth comb; the only construction problem we had was with the sheet rockers; on all 3 houses, and not the same workers..if i ever build again, i will be there watching the sheet rockers constantly. the last house we did was for a daughter; in 96; @1200sq. ft; 3bedrm bath an a half; brick, 1 car garage, vinyl windows, 6inch walls; total cost @ $35,000.
geothermal; i have followed 4 installations; and i think its the way to go if your gonna stay there for at least 8-10 years; one of these used 1 well, and then dumped the water on the ground, garden in the summer, and pasture in the winter, i haven't been able to find out how much water it takes, but it must need a good well; the other 2 drilled wells and put loops in the wells; one put the loops in parallel, this one doesn't work worth a crap; the other has the loops in series and it works great..the last buried the pipes in the ground, @10 ft deep; and it works great..
heehaw

 

[dmccarty]

The R value of an ICF house is a very good question without a good answer. The manufactuers usually state the R value is anywhere from 25 to 50. A government lab, I think it was Oak Ridge was doing a study, that threw even more fuel on the fire. I'm not sure there is a good answer... 8-(

On the other hand, I guess I really don't care about the R value. I care about the cooling/heating costs. Everything I have read over the last 10 years says you save 50-70% in energy costs.

Running services, power/plumbing/phone/network/ etc is another good question. To save money on the wire installations some manufactuers tell you to run a router on the surface of the form to create a route for the wire. When the drywall is put up the wire is attached to a wall plate. Plumbing on exterior walls has to be considered carefull since you might have to install the pipes before the concrete is poured. These are the two things I don't like about ICFs.

I was drawing up a new floor plan last night to submit for approval to The Power That Be, when it occured to me to use furring lumber to give me a empty space to run wire. I was origionally going to use 2x4s to do this but that seems like such a waste.

Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty

 

[heehaw]

go to dougrye.com if you are considering building your own house; he is one of the most energy conscious architects
in the business, anywhere...he's big on geothermal units and says if you build your house to his specs; a 2000sq ft house will cost @ $50 a month to heat or cool, thats in the arkansas/missouri area..
heehaw

 

[RJohnson]

I have seen R values from R17 to R40 depends upon the exact system you use. I found some very good information at http://www.pcinews.com/concrete/ and there is a good article about electrical installation. Usually they cut out channels in the interior foam panel. The thing that really got my attention was the article for HVAC. The ICF type of homes are much more airtight than a conventional home and you may need fresh air introducted into the home.

Randy

 

[heehaw]

its been a while since i looked at doug ryes information, but it seems like he covers the need for fresh air in a tight house?? a couple of the things he recommends, other than geothermal hvac; metal ductwork, with joints sealed with mastic, air infiltration, cellulose insulation, caulk caulk caulk, his nickname is the king of caulk and talk..in this area, he advertises that he will guarantee the $50 heating/cooling cost. not sure what kind of guarantee???
heehaw

 

[dmccarty]

Hello Larry,

I finally got around to looking for my Fine Homebuilding with the geothermal information. More importantly I was actually able to find it last night!

It had some pretty good info and what really suprised me is that the author/contractor is in Apex, NC which is about 200 yards from the back of my current house! I'm going to have to reread the article but the prices seemed reasonable especially if he gives me a good discount for digging the trenches myself.

Thanks for the pointer....
Dan McCarty

 

[LarryT]

Dan, Keep us posted on your findings. I'm planning to do the same thing myself in a couple years so I'm very interested in your experiences.

Thanks,


Larry...

 

[dmccarty]

Larry,

You might get into the house before we do! The Power That Be and I had yet another talk about the house this weekend and we don't know what we are going to do. Before we start the house, the driveway has to be built so we can get the well drilled and the fill for the septic system put into place. I also have a couple of burns to do before hand as well. The burns are totally dependent on the weather. Which makes things even more easy. NOT!

Our current plan is for me to do all of that work to save money. Well we need money to do this and it will take awhile to get the cash. Unless we get a good amount back from Uncle Sam. Even at best case I would be lucky to have the driveway, well and septic fill done by spring. We have to have house plans drawn up which is going to take more time and money. Soooo, if we do it the way I just outlined things we would be hard pressed to get the house built by 12/20001. Instead of pushing, which is what we did last year, I think we are just going to take our time.

Course I'm interested in the geothermal system which adds more items to the ToDo List......

The only way around this timeframe is to get the loan from the bank and run the risk with the well and septic systems. Our neighbor/friend is doing this and I think they are nuts. Our/Theirs septic fill has to sit for at least 30 days before anything can be done with it. Their house is under construction and they are trying to move in by April . They have not put down one yard of dirt.......

I don't think I want to put myself into that kinda rock and hard place.

So, you might just get it done before us!

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[putty340]

dmcarty,doing the foundation is pretty straightforward,go slow , the only things that can mess you up is not having it square and bracing.make sure the ground is solid-if you do disturb the ground,pack it with a jumper.the reason that the colder regions have crawls is the cold concrete just doesnt get warm in the winter, slab on grade is cheaper if you live in warmer areas. I just got finished building my house,the only things i subbed out was the plumming and the electrical- DO RESEARCH YOUR SUBS! If you are a homeowner they have a tendancy to overcharge you and put your job off as soon as they start it. If you go slow you can do it,just dont listen to people who try to scare you away from doing your own thing. GOOD LUCK.

 

[cowboydoc]

Dan,
Depending on the house that you want to build you can do it in six months if you have the time. My house was simple on the outside but we made it very nice on the inside. Three reasons for this. 1. I didn't have the time to do a complicated outside framing and concrete pour. I kept it pretty simple. 2. If it's not so extravagant on the outside then the tax man doesn't get you and in Iowa property taxes are outrageous. 3. I didn't plan on this being my last house. We started in the fall of 1999 and finished it up the end of this last summer 2000. I worked about 6-8 hours a day on the house plus 8-10 hours a day at the office. At times it really drug me down but in the end it was worth it. I had one guy that was a carpenter for a local contractor that helped me and I had a couple high school kids that helped with the grunt work on and off. Including the 25 acres, two barns and house I had about $120,000 into the place when I was done. The last appraisal that I got was for $265,000. The place down the road from me is an old house from the 70's with a small barn and only 15 acres and it sold for $195,000 so I think mine may even be priced a little low.
Anyway my point is that you can save alot money and have alot of equity when you are done by doing it yourself but just be prepared for that 6-8 months of hell working all those hours.