Building over buried lines

Freds · Feb 26, 2006

I guess this is like a Murphey's Law kind of question, but here goes...
Given the choice, or lack of, do people build garages/pole barns over known buried lines? Would it depend on what kind of line it is?

I have been kicking around putting up a building to park my vehicle and tractor in. (It isn't feasible for me to keep my tractor in the pole barn in the winter months because of location, so it sits outside all winter), but the only *good* locations for a building would be on top of where the water & gas line are run to my business, which is 70 ft from my house. There is also the possibility of finding the gas line that feeds my house where it runs from my gas well. No one seems to know or remember where it was ran since the owner did it himself and didn't mark it in anyway /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.

I don't know much about building structures, but I was thinking of something that didn't require a foundation and keeping the floor gravel just in case. These are relatively new lines, being just 4 years old, but still.....
I don't want the garage to be too far away (in a low area that sometimes sees overflow from my creek) and to tie it in with my existing drive in a practical manner would set it right on top of the trench where the water and gas were ran from my house to my business.

The electric from the pole was ran in an underground conduit, so I don't think there would be a problem if I wanted to pave everything one day, but that has crossed my mind, too.

Is this done in worse case scenarios?

Thanks

chuck1975 · Feb 26, 2006

In our area (state) Indiana you could not do it with out 2 things. 1. permint 2. permit would require relocating all lines. I guess there is another option though I wouldn't try or do it, build without permit.

The cost of relocating the lines may be an expensive thought but then you have them 1. where you know they are 2. where you need them to be for future additions or fixing problems (broken).

Probably not the answer that you're looking for but the better answer to have for future problems, (like building bigger building, selling the property).
HTH
chuck1975

Freds · Feb 26, 2006

Hey, any answer is appreciated!
I can see not being able to build over public utility lines, but these lines are mine to maintain. Don't know if that makes a difference.
I guess in my mind I know it's not a good idea, but I might as well not even put up a building if I can't put it where I want it. Relocation is something I hadn't thought of. Thanks.
...but I would just as soon move them if I had a problem.

Birdhunter1 · Feb 26, 2006

I am sure people will call me crazy and say that this will not work but find someone who can whitch the lines for you. Like an old plumber.

some people say it doesn't work, others have never heard of it, but I found an entire horizontal geothermal loop on a finish grade yard. We had had an extremly dry summer and when the dirt was piled over the trench for rain to compact it it never happened, landscaper finished the yard perfectly but still the trenches were not compacted. My job till it was dne was to go out there and "find" the loop and use a garden hose to sink the dirt to compact around the lines so they would have enough contact with the dirt ofr a heat exchange.

Yeah it sounds like it may have been easy to spot, but I am telling you I have never seen a yard (still dirt now) so beautifully graded. When I left there wer three 500' long trenches in the yard.

Farwell · Feb 26, 2006

In my opinion the best choice would be to relocate the utilities and in the long run relocating may be the cheapest as well. If you chose to relocate the utilities keep in mind that you could possibly use the old lines to supply your new building with water and gas if they are located in an area where it could be done easily. Using the old lines could save you a tidy sum of $ if it works out that way. It cost me around $1000 for a 200 foot gas line, dug and installed, to my pole barn.
Farwell

EddieWalker · Feb 26, 2006

The problem with building over lines is not being able to get to them if you need to. It's very, very rare to have to get to them, but it does happen.

My thinking is go ahead and do it. If you have to dig up the lines, than it's the same work as haveing to relocat them anyway, just a little more tricky because of the building in the way.

But before I did anything, I'd know for sure where they wre and how deep. Use a metal detector, a probe or a shovel. More than likely you will need all three.

Know exactly where they are before doing anything.

Here in Texas, there are burried pipelines all over the place. They are suposed to be at a certain depth, but the contractors that burriend them learned that nobody was inspecting their work, so they save a ton of time and money buringy them just a few feet down.

When they mark their lines where any sort of digging is going on, they will dig down by hand with a shovel and a probe for that very reason.

Eddie

rambler · Feb 26, 2006

'Where it runs from my gas well..."

Um. Where is the pressure regulation, if this is your gas well, and not a utility feed? I believe you will have a very hard time getting a permit to build over a high pressure, or unregulated line. That would not be cool.

You likely would have to locate & protect the line if it is a lower pressure line. If local satute allows that.

By that time, would be easier to relocate the line, & send a feed to the shed....

If something goes wrong with the water line, you have a wet sinking mess. Oh well.

If the electric cable goes bad, most likely a breaker will blow, tho you could get a fire or curl your hair. Bothersome, but not too much threat to others, oh well.

If something goes wrong with the gas line - well, when the leaking propane tank filled the shed 7 miles from my farm...... The tin shed we were in rattled when the fellow pushed the garage door opener & lit off the shed full of gas. Wrecked several houses around, and the fellow - who lived through it - had to leave the area, no one wanted to deal with him.

I'd be uncomfortable with the gas line deal.

--->Paul

kayssupply · Feb 26, 2006

In my area, you have to sleeve any line under a building that could do damage, burn or blow up. We have to sleeve them out until they clear the slab/floor. I have done water lines the same way but there are untold thousands of water lines under concrete. A sleeve on it would allow you to pull it out from under the floor if a leak happened without damaging your floor. I do it under driveways all the time. $20 worth of plastic pipe could save hundreds down the road.

Freds · Feb 26, 2006

( Um. Where is the pressure regulation, if this is your gas well, and not a utility feed? )

The gas line nobody knows where it's at has a high pressure regulator back at the well. It also has another regulator at the house.

I have shut this line down at the well when there was digging being done for my business and when I was putting up fencing, but I was kind of hoping it would be "found" just so I had some idea where it was at or what direction it entered my house from.

The gas line I ran then comes back out of my house, goes over to my water well and from there they both run to my business. I know exactly where these lines are and how deep. These are the lines I know will be where I want to locate a garage.

I like Eddie's idea of build over them and if I have a problem, then dig them up on either side of the garage and relocate them at that time, but a possible gas line break occuring underneath the garage bears a lot of thought. That's why I said this was a Murphy's Law kind of question. It'll probably never happen... until something is built over it.

Freds · Feb 26, 2006

kayssupply,
Is it possible to sleeve existing lines? Would this require breaking the lines in two spots and adding joints?.... I'm guessing brass connectors and hose clamps on the plastic lines?
This may not be a bad idea if I end up putting something in that requires a foundation and I have the equipment to do lots of digging.

markct · Feb 26, 2006

how big of a building ya wanna make, here we have some buildings as big as 12 by 20ft that are on skids, so if we were to move them, which we have occasionaly, all that ya gota do is drag it, that would be alot better if you are worried about the underground lines, actualy come to think of it one of them is over the main electric line coming into our house!

kayssupply · Feb 26, 2006

If you have plastic lines cutting and sleeving wouldn't be that hard. You could probably just make one cut and expose then sleeve. Another thought would be to bury a tracer wire so you could find them later. A tracer wire is always a good idea when running plastic lines. You leave the wire exposed at one or both ends for attaching a sending unit to make location a snap years later. We even bury a warning tape a few inches above a plastic gas line so you know its there if digging later.

dooleysm · Feb 27, 2006

If you want advice from someone who's been where you are, you've come to the right place.

I put up a pole barn near my house last summer. The area we laid out was known to be directly above the water line from the meter to the house (our responsibility). The barn is set off about 20 feet from the driveway. The electric feed to our house runs along side the driveway. They marked it when they installed it the previous year. I never saw the phone line installed, but they assured me they bury it right next to the electric line.

So, early last summer we head out with the post hole digger to dig our holes. 3rd hole in fills with water. We patch the water line and dump a good amount of gravel over it. Should we move the water line? Well, we decide, if there's ever a problem, we'll trench the line around the barn, same thing we'd have to do to move it. Might as well continue on and hope it never breaks. But at least we have a plan.

We continue on digging our holes (now 2 hours later) and on the final hole, up pops a telephone cable. The telephone company fixed that the next day and marked it. The route the telephone line takes coming into our house is fairly comical...full of right angles and nowhere near where it is 'supposed' to be.

The project continues on throughout the summer. We tap into the water feed to the house (under the barn) to install 2 frost free hydrants, one in the barn and one right outside. We pour a concrete floor, finish the roof and siding and are living happily until Thanksgiving.

I come in from rabbit hunting Sunday afternoon and notice some large puddles of water near the barn. Odd, since it hadn't rained recently. A quick trip to the water meter assures me that I hadn't forgotten about any recent showers, and we were in fact losing some water to the ground. Some quick digging next to the barn indicates that's where the leak is. We pack it up for the night.

Monday evening my father in law shows up with the trencher and we trench a new water line in around the barn. This solves our leak, but puts a damer on the water to my 2 hydrants at the barn. The following night we dig under the barn and find the leak, right where we had patched it early in the summer. We cap that off and turn on the valve that we had installed the night before above the barn. Water was restored to the house and barn.

So, just to let you know, Murphy is alive and well and he knows all to well what to do when you build a barn on top of his utility lines.

LBrown59 · Feb 27, 2006

I built a 52 foot wide pole building.
The front 4x6 post are right on top of where my gas and water lines cross from one side of the property to the other.
The builder spliced = repaired the one place he hit the gas line.
We debated what to do about the gas line leave it as it was or re route the line.
We decided to leave it as it was as I could always loop it along the back or front and around the sides of the building if I had a problem later.
That was 10 years ago.
Had the building been set back one foot more than it is we would have completely missed the gas line.
=====

NIXON · Feb 27, 2006

(
Had the building been set back one foot more than it is we would have completely missed the gas line.
===== )
Absolute "BIMP " /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BoneheadNW · Feb 27, 2006

( I built a 52 foot wide pole building.
The front 4x6 post are right on top of where my gas and water lines cross from one side of the property to the other.
The builder spliced = repaired the one place he hit the gas line.
We debated what to do about the gas line leave it as it was or re route the line.
We decided to leave it as it was as I could always loop it along the back or front and around the sides of the building if I had a problem later.
That was 10 years ago.
Had the building been set back one foot more than it is we would have completely missed the gas line.
===== )
I had a similar problem with my place except there were no gas or water lines underneath or near the building. We haven't had a problem since, although it has only been 3 years.
Bonehead

TOMLESCOEQUIP · Feb 27, 2006

(
I had a similar problem with my place except there were no gas or water lines underneath or near the building. We haven't had a problem since, although it has only been 3 years.
Bonehead ) Sometimes it takes a few years and then a more severe winter will come along and frost heave a post or 2 in pole construction. You may get a water leak then or else never.

BoneheadNW · Feb 27, 2006

( (
I had a similar problem with my place except there were no gas or water lines underneath or near the building. We haven't had a problem since, although it has only been 3 years.
Bonehead ) Sometimes it takes a few years and then a more severe winter will come along and frost heave a post or 2 in pole construction. You may get a water leak then or else never. )
It is funny that you mention the frost heave. I was told by our builder not to put a rock wall near any post or underground utilities. Unfortunately, he was hit by a car before the house was completed. That it why I mentioned that we haven't had a problem yet, but I have my fingers crossed!
Bonehead

TOMLESCOEQUIP · Feb 27, 2006

( ( (
I had a similar problem with my place except there were no gas or water lines underneath or near the building. We haven't had a problem since, although it has only been 3 years.
Bonehead ) Sometimes it takes a few years and then a more severe winter will come along and frost heave a post or 2 in pole construction. You may get a water leak then or else never. )
It is funny that you mention the frost heave. I was told by our builder not to put a rock wall near any post or underground utilities. Unfortunately, he was hit by a car before the house was completed. That it why I mentioned that we haven't had a problem yet, but I have my fingers crossed!
Bonehead [/ )There's a "rock hall" in cleveland but the builder's used block & glass construction if that helps any. color]  [/ )There's a "rock hall" in cleveland but the builder's used block & glass construction if that helps any. color]