Bulk Grease Choice?

[DieselPower]

Hi DieselPower, Jmbrock, Jeff, Dargo, Alan, and the gang,

To JmBrock...I was going to ask the same kind of questions that you had just asked, but you beat me to it...What does Timkin, 4 Ball Wear, etc., mean?

DieselPower, (resident lube expert), ....Thank you for your post on greases. I hope you don't mind if we pick your brain a little bit more. It is an interesting subject and hard to get real information that we can understand. This is the grease I am using now, (in cartridges), and was thinking of getting a pail. Or maybe yours is better, I don't know...since I do not have the knowledge to understand what all the indexes really mean...just numbers listed in a column.
https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS7668266.PDF
Looking at the test data on that page can you explain to us what the dropping point numbers , 4 ball numbers, water washout numbers, viscosity index numbers, etc., etc., really mean? Is there some kind of chart that puts all those numbers into context and tells us what they mean? For instance, I noticed that oil separation for the NLGI grade 2 is a 2...does that mean it will separate out in a long time, (years), or no? It is a 5 for grade 0. Is 5 good or bad?

I'm sure a few other folks on the board would like to know also, so they could make informed decisions before buying a bucket.

Is there some kind of chart, well yes and no. There is in a way, it's the ASTM standards reference manual. These manuals describe in detail how each of the ASTM test are to be performed. Each standard varies from 10 to 50+ pages in length. The last set I purchased cost over $1K. Maybe someday I should set down and make a handy little description manual for lubricants that gives a basic description of the different test and exactly what the numbers mean. The only downfall is that there are hundreds of standards depending on the lubricant type.

Here's a "very" basic description about some of the ones you mentioned. The dropping point is the temperature at which a grease melts and can flow through a measured orifice (basically the temperature at which it turns from a solid/semi-fluid [depending on NGLI#] to a fluid). Timken OK Load rating and the 4 Ball Wear test are both measurements of a greases load rating. The higher the Timken OK Load rating the better. In the 4 Ball Wear test the smaller the wear scar diameter the better and the higher the seizure load rating the better. Oil seperation, the higher the number the more base oil the grease is likely to bleed out, the more grease that bleeds out the shorter it's shelf life as it will eventually start to dry up and crack. The viscosity index really shouldn't concern the average user to much, it's the VI of the base oil used in the grease. Engineers worry more about this rating in very high speed bearing applications (10K RPM+) under high heat.

One standard you didn't mention that I consider rather important is the Stability by Penetration test (ASTM D217-52T). Look for a grease that is tested at 60, 10,000 and 100,000 worked strokes. The lower the difference in the numbers the better. Basically it measures the consistency change in grease over it's life. Greases with a large difference from the 60 to 100K strokes test will change greatly in their consistency (thin out and gets runny).

One of the big problems in the lubricants industry in my opinion is that everyone uses different test which makes it very difficult for the average Joe to compare spec's from one product to the next. The real problem is that there is usually no one test that best measures something like load and wear. Depending on what the application is there may be a lot of different test. What type of wear, rotating wear, frictional rubbing type wear, extreme pressure..... To the average person I can understand how the numbers can be very confusing.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Holy Cats!

DP, I trust you on this stuff, but is your TRC grease really worth a third more per pound? $221.85 for 45 pounds compared to $129.00 for 35 pounds of Lucas R&T.

Since I am saving a bunch by buying bulk instead of tubes, it helps ease the pain -- but 45 pounds of grease is a several year investment for a CUT with BH & FEL and an LGT with mower deck.

Maybe I should return the bulk pump and buy TRC grease by the case for some savings and fresher grease. At my current rate of consumption (maybe not what it should be) -- 45 pounds might last me 5 or 6 years.

 

[DieselPower]

Is it really worth a third more a pound. Let's put it this way, I have never sold to someone who later switched back to another grease. As for how long it will last you the grease itself is stable to about 30 years+ so you would have used it all long before you had any problems with seperation.

Edited to add: Also remember that you are comparing a Moly fortified grease to one that is not. In comparison regular 880 C&C grease is $172.80 (3.84 pr/lb) where the Moly 880 C&C is $221.85 (4.93 pr/lb). The Lucas R&T is 3.68 pr/lb.

 

[Redbug]

Thanks for the information DieselPower.

This has been a very informative thread. As soon as I use the cartridges up in my stash I will order it in bulk. In the long run, it is the most convienient and cheapest way to go. One good grease instead of 3 for the different vehicles, implements, and boats.

 

[Glowplug]

I have been wanting to get some bulk grease for a while now. I was thinking about TRC's Paragon 3000. Its' specs are simply amazing. But I DO have a loader and now I'm thinking Moly 880 C&C may be more appropriate. I would LOVE to get BOTH Paragon 3000 (to use for general applications) and Moly 880 C&C to use in my loader. If only I had buckets of cash to exchange for buckets of grease.

 

[Dargo]

Buckets? Buckets?? C'mon now! If you're going to go "bulk", you at least need quarter barrels. Although I no longer sell any grease, the grease fairy still drops off a few cases and a quarter barrel or two each year. Although the quarter barrels last a while, I'm still not big on the pneumatic systems. It's such a pain to roll the barrel around and then run the air hoses to it. That goes for the little 5 gallon pneumatic dude I have. I still like using the tubes in my 14.4 volt Lincoln greaser.

I'm sure there is good, better, and best in greases. Since many of the machines in the mines have tens of thousands of hours on them and they've used a particular type the grease fairy leaves for me, I figure it's good enough for me. I gotta watch the fairy though. One time he left 5th wheel grease and another time he left edible grease! For the record, I have no plans to eat the grease!

 

[Stimw]

I have been using Cheveron EP for about 10 years. A guy gave me a tube of it at a local RR yard. He said it was the only grease that would hold up in the large Packers they load semi's on the trains with.
I bought a used air gun that takes 5 gal. pails on ebay for about $200. I paid $72. for 5 gal. last fall. The EP is very sticky.

 

[dberry]

A demonstration I do for water resistance is done on my car or truck side window. I take the competitions grease and smear a little on it (my window that is), take a handfull of paper towels, soak them with water and spray water on the window while I try to rub it off. Eventually I end up wiping off all the competitions grease. Then I stick some of my grease on the window and do the same. All I end up doing is spreading the grease around, you just can't get it off with water and paper towels. You have to use solvent to remove it.

I bought a bucket of the TRC moly grease. A warning... Wear disposable gloves. It sticks to everything. It won't wipe off.

Whatever notions I might have had about ever washing or waxing my tractor are now gone. I keep paper towels in the tractor for wiping zerks before greasing. Afterwards I treat them like infected waste and immediately carry them to the burn pit.

 

[DieselPower]

I bought a bucket of the TRC moly grease. A warning... Wear disposable gloves. It sticks to everything. It won't wipe off.

Whatever notions I might have had about ever washing or waxing my tractor are now gone. I keep paper towels in the tractor for wiping zerks before greasing. Afterwards I treat them like infected waste and immediately carry them to the burn pit.

Oh God that's funny and not the first time I have heard that. No one believes me how hard it is to get off until they get it on themselves. That's a good thing though. If it's sticking it's doing it's job.

Glowplug - In your application the Moly 880 C&C grease would be best. The Paragon 3000 does have some hard to beat spec's. However, in this one type of application, FEL's and BH's I prefer a Moly fortified grease. In these applications the pins/bushings tend not to move a lot which lowers the amount of grease flow around the pin and under very high loads if all of the grease should be pressed out there is still a coating of Moly as a last defense against wear. Every grease type and blend has it's highlight. Moly greases shine above the rest in low movement high load conditions.

 

[Redbug]

I called around for a price on a pail, (35 lbs), of the red color Chevron Ultra Duty EP that I use. $73 a pail. Not too bad! That's about the same price Stimw paid for his.