Burned JohnDeere 4100

[Johndeere3720]

Well as many already know, i am aquiring a free burned JohnDeere 4100 from my neighbor. It is pretty scorched, the tires are compleatly melted off as well as plastic and paint. I plan to restore the implements but want to know the pros and cons of restoring the tractor itself. I am aware that I will need to replace ALL seals and that the metal may be weakend. I in fact was the last person to drive the 4100 before the fire. When I drove it, i noticed that the hydraulic cylinders had internal leaks, it liked to turn left on slopes, and the PTO was hard to engage. I decided it would be a good highschool project for me and i will be assisted by knowledgable diesel mechanics, a former John Deere mechanic, and everyone here on TBN. The tractor has a gear tranny. I will need to take more pictures as my camera will not respond with a certain memory card on the computer. It is supposably to large to upload from. Questions, opinions, and comments welcome. I will need all the help I can get. Thanks, Jake.

 

[powerstroke444e]

A picture is worth a 1,000 words, I see lots of these threw my companies claims office and some are not worth fixing and others just need paint. A word of caution is that if the tires burned I would bet that it melted some of the housings on the machine. At that point it makes a better salvage machine for the parts than fixing up. As for the loader/backhoe they usually can be put on a differant machine. I wish you luck.

 

[kennyd]

Here is my motto:

"Just because it's free does not mean it's a good deal."

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I agree with kennyd. These projects always start out as a deal. Then you end up with more money invested than the machine is worth. You usually realize this about half way through the project but already have to much time and money invested to quit. I also would be worried about whether some of the metal got hot enough to become weak. Before I spent a penny I would totally assemble the tractor and access what it would need.
Bill

 

[chrisdvorak]

lets see a picture

 

[Thomas]

Johndeere3720.
I agree w/other gentlmen.
Have"a former John Deere mechanic" take good look.
Such project could end up "nickle and dimeing you to death".

 

[Diamondpilot]

I had a chance at a 45HP ish NH tractor 2 years ago. I had a guy from the local tractor dealer look at it and he said I could buy a nearly new on for what I would have in that one.

He was very worried about the metals. I hear that JD is now using Aluminum for the rear axle areas and that would or could be a major issue.

Chris

 

[dfkrug]

He was very worried about the metals. I hear that JD is now using Aluminum for the rear axle areas and that would or could be a major issue.

JD has been using Al in parts of their rears since at least the early 90s.
It could be the center rear gearcase, as on x55s, or the axle castings as on
the 4x00s and 4x10s. It is BOTH for the 3x20s.

A fully-engulfed tire puts out LOTS of heat. After seeing what can happen
with burning tires at a house fire, I would be surprised if the rear axle
castings on this 4100 were not distorted.

Nevertheless, it would be interesting to open it up and see what happened.

 

[Kernopelli]

I have to agree with popular consensus, it sounds like it's probably not practical to rebuild the tractor. However, that certainly wouldn't stop me from getting it. IT'S FREE!! I am certain there are parts that are salvageable (and possibly resalable with full disclosure of where the parts came from). I have been down this road on several occasions with my son, who is very much like you. These have been great opportunities for him to disassemble the machines, giving him (and me) a great way to see how things are built and work. We have sold salvageable parts on Ebay or Craigslist and that money goes into a "project fund" to pay for project materials, tools, etc for him. Nuts, bolts, levers, mechanisms or anything we thought we could use at some point in time were sorted and saved for personal use in our shop. Since everything at this point is completely disassembled, it is easy to separate the copper, aluminum and steel remnants to be sold to the local metal recycler and that money also goes into his "project fund". It has never failed to surprise me how much money ( and knowledge) this approach has yielded. The sorted "clean" metal is worth far more than selling it as a whole piece of "junk" metal. He has made a considerable amount of money this way over the past few years. He has a tool collection that is beginning to rival my own and his fabrication, mechanical skills and understanding are way beyond his years. A young industrious young man such as yourself could greatly benefit in many ways from this tractor, even if one of them isn't in the form of a restorable 4100.

 

[spruce Deere]

Yep, I agree with kennyD, just because its free dose not mean its a good deal. But like kernopelli states nuts, bolts assorted pins, 3pt parts and such can be more than likely reused. At best I would think it would just be a "limited parts donor" for other projects. Pictures are of great help in such maters too

 

[tugboat-2]

Jake,...I think Kernopelli says it very well. I think it is very wise NOT to spend a penny on it,....untill it has been extremely well examined by your JD mechanic and a decision made whether or not it's worth rebuilding or simply parting it out to build your bank account.

In other words don't purchase filters or seals etc for later just because you can get a deal on them now. After reading your description of its condition, I too am very concerned about heat distortion, weakness and other wierd things that happen with excessive heat.

Don't be disappointed if it turns out to be best not to rebuild. Keep in mind there is an absolute wealth of educational information in the unit either way. Parting it out can be extremely advantageous financially, ...as long as you are honest with the buyers.

I'd be interested in seeing the photos when you are better able to get some. What an interesting project to dismantle,...keeping track, making notes, taking photos,...treat it like a plane crash post mortem, ...every part and piece tagged and documented for later expert-examination. Will make an interesting photo-documented album or book.

Would your school accept a project like that for "credits" ? If I had any say at your school, I would most certainly give you the greatest encouragement!

Anyway Jake, as always,...I wish you well in all that you do!! Merry Christmas to you and your family.

CHEERS!
. . tug

 

[mjncad]

Until we see photos, I'm going to err on the side of caution and suggest you use the machine only for teaching yourself how these machines are put together and operate.

In other words, tear into it to see what makes it tick without having to worry about wrecking it, or having to get it back together because you need to mow weeds or something.

To me there is nothing worse than having to work on a machine versus wanting to work on it.

I think this "Free" tractor could easily become a big money pit for you with a very uncertain chance of success.

 

[Johndeere3720]

well, although the computer wasnt cooperating, i still managed to upload a picture. This is the best picture I could get until they pull it out of the pile. The tiller seems to be in good shape since it stuck out of the barn a little bit.

 

[Johndeere3720]

I do plan to tear into it with the mechanic from John Deere to see if it is worth fixing up. I know that I can save the tiller and the loader. I couldn't get a better picture since we cant move anything since the fire is still under investigation. Wost case, I can part it out and earn some $$$$. One thing i am wondering though, if the 4100 is unfixable, will the FEL fit on my Yanmar? I know i will have to tweek it a bit but would it work on my Yanmar? im pretty sure it is a 410 FEL.

 

[aczlan]

My take on this tractor:
Disassemble: Yes
Part out: Yes
Rebuild: Not worth it (based on your pictures).

IMO, if it got hot enough to take the paint off you will have to replace ALL seals AND many parts. The loader MIGHT be salvageable (if the metal isn't discolored) and with new rams it could be usable on your Yanmar (with some adaptions). I did a similar project last winter where I had a engine compartment fire on a '89 Volvo 740. It just lost the engine wiring harness and fuel lines. But it would have been cheaper to part the car out and get another one than it was to repair it. I did repair it and it worked from Upstate NY to Iowa where it lost coolant and cooked the engine... Alas.

If I could get it for free I would get it, tear it down, sell whatever is reusable and scrap the rest.

Just my $0.02

Aaron Z

 

[Johndeere3720]

Im just very curious about whats under the hood.........

 

[DanD78]

Walk Away..

Having been a tool maker and dealing with heat treating metals, the tractors parts could be any where from soft as lead if allowed to air cool to brittle as glass if it was hit with water and quenched vary quickly.

You can tell that was a hot fire. You are not talking minor damage here.

Dan

 

[Kubota 2350]

That looks to have been a very HOT fire, I have to agree with the rest of the guy's that say it's probably not worth fixing.

 

[aczlan]

Im just very curious about whats under the hood.........

There is a bunch of charred or burnt stuff under the hood. Not much more.

Aaron Z

 

[Johndeere3720]

so part it out? Does the FEL look like it could be fixed up and put on my Yanmar? Is the tiller salvagable?