Burned up my M 25 mig torch

[BukitCase]

You mentioned "gas" and "flux core" in the same paragraph - are you running inner shield, standard gasless flux core, or something else? (nevermind, just googled that E 71T-1 flux core wire and found NOTHING that talks about type of drive rolls needed...)

Reasons for the question - don't shoot if you already know all this, just covering bases...

Standard flux core runs DCEN while hard wire runs DCEP

Some use gas even with that wire, especially at higher amps - tends to keep the tip cooler

I checked out some of the cored wire types a bit, forgot which was which but I was thinking higher amps/fatter wire so I could MIG heavier stuff (Case backhoe add-ons, etc) - finally gave up and decided I'd just use my 250 amp stick machine on those.

Spray transfer looked appealing til I needed yet another gas and only horizontal/flat position. (Don't have a positioner that will hold a 13,000 lb. backhoe )

Pretty much all the cored wires (might be one exception) want KNURLED drive rolls, so unless you already know that and changed yours, the 252 ships with V rolls which would have SLIPPAGE problems using gasless flux core wire.

Hopefully for YOUR sake, there's at least one point in this you weren't aware of, and that makes your day... Steve

 

[mx842]

You mentioned "gas" and "flux core" in the same paragraph - are you running inner shield, standard gasless flux core, or something else? (nevermind, just googled that E 71T-1 flux core wire and found NOTHING that talks about type of drive rolls needed...)

Reasons for the question - don't shoot if you already know all this, just covering bases...

Standard flux core runs DCEN while hard wire runs DCEP

Some use gas even with that wire, especially at higher amps - tends to keep the tip cooler

I checked out some of the cored wire types a bit, forgot which was which but I was thinking higher amps/fatter wire so I could MIG heavier stuff (Case backhoe add-ons, etc) - finally gave up and decided I'd just use my 250 amp stick machine on those.

Spray transfer looked appealing til I needed yet another gas and only horizontal/flat position. (Don't have a positioner that will hold a 13,000 lb. backhoe )

Pretty much all the cored wires (might be one exception) want KNURLED drive rolls, so unless you already know that and changed yours, the 252 ships with V rolls which would have SLIPPAGE problems using gasless flux core wire.

Hopefully for YOUR sake, there's at least one point in this you weren't aware of, and that makes your day... Steve

(Don't have a positioner that will hold a 13,000 lb. backhoe ):laughing: I don't have one of those either but I sure want one.:licking:

I changed the drive rolls to the knurled type for running this wire. I ran ok with the V groove but you had to run the tension a little tighter. With the knurled rollers very little tension is wanted or needed.

You have to use gas shielding with this wire either straight CO2 or a 75 Org 25 CO2 mix.... and I'm running the mix.

 

[ericher69]

(Don't have a positioner that will hold a 13,000 lb. backhoe ):laughing: I don't have one of those either but I sure want one.:licking: I changed the drive rolls to the knurled type for running this wire. I ran ok with the V groove but you had to run the tension a little tighter. With the knurled rollers very little tension is wanted or needed. You have to use gas shielding with this wire either straight CO2 or a 75 Org 25 CO2 mix.... and I'm running the mix.

Seems to me I read somewhere that someone was using a U groove roll with a knurled roll combo for FC.

Also is your tip recessed or flush?

I've never run FC on my 252 but love its performance for my needs even the M25 gun.

Sent from my iPhone 5s 64Gb using TractorByNet

 

[firemanmike69]

If you are running bigger fluxcore they make fluxcore guns that's are a lot more heavy duty because the regular guns are actually ment to be cooled by the shielding gas.

 

[mx842]

If you are running bigger fluxcore they make fluxcore guns that's are a lot more heavy duty because the regular guns are actually ment to be cooled by the shielding gas.

I am running a 75/25 mix with this wire.

 

[mx842]

Seems to me I read somewhere that someone was using a U groove roll with a knurled roll combo for FC.

Also is your tip recessed or flush?

I've never run FC on my 252 but love its performance for my needs even the M25 gun.

Sent from my iPhone 5s 64Gb using TractorByNet

I could be wrong but I don't think there is anything wrong with the wire feed part. It feeds the wire ok until it gets to the neck of the gun. When you are running that heavy wire at close to the duty cycle the torch is just not heavy enough to take the heat it creates. It probably would be ok for a short time but when you are welding on a project like I have been working on where you are welding all day for days at a time it catches up to it. I think what is happening is that the liner is getting hot near the torch and it is either stretching or twisting in the handle which cause the wire to bind up.

 

[BukitCase]

"I think what is happening is that the liner is getting hot near the torch and it is either stretching or twisting in the handle which cause the wire to bind up. "

That could very well be - with my 252, the M25 gun started acting up with prolonged use at just 370 IPM (about 180 amps) - it was OK doing stitches/tacks, but when I did a full length pass on a 6 foot run (2 1/4"x4" flat bars) it started acting up. Had to replace the tip after the 4th or 5th time it burned back.

I was using 15 CFH (C25 gas) before, bumping it up to 20 outside (calm day), now when I go over about 150 amps I bump the flow up to 20 INSIDE, 25 OUTSIDE. (This is still with the M25)

Since the M25 still uses a slip-on nozzle, I've taken to only pushing it on far enough to engage the O-ring - this gives me about 1/8" recess from that "flush" tip. That and the increased flow seems to have helped quite a bit on the heat problem.

Here's what I was working on, wanted a smooth "ramp" in front (wife's garden cart - this is my 6' x 8' brush bucket, and I'd promised her to make it easier to load than the "V 1.0" version) - I also didn't want to get a bunch of crap inside, hence the (hopefully) hermetic welds in most areas ... Steve

 

[Big Barn]

"I think what is happening is that the liner is getting hot near the torch and it is either stretching or twisting in the handle which cause the wire to bind up. " That could very well be - with my 252, the M25 gun started acting up with prolonged use at just 370 IPM (about 180 amps) - it was OK doing stitches/tacks, but when I did a full length pass on a 6 foot run (2 1/4"x4" flat bars) it started acting up. Had to replace the tip after the 4th or 5th time it burned back. I was using 15 CFH (C25 gas) before, bumping it up to 20 outside (calm day), now when I go over about 150 amps I bump the flow up to 20 INSIDE, 25 OUTSIDE. (This is still with the M25) Since the M25 still uses a slip-on nozzle, I've taken to only pushing it on far enough to engage the O-ring - this gives me about 1/8" recess from that "flush" tip. That and the increased flow seems to have helped quite a bit on the heat problem. Here's what I was working on, wanted a smooth "ramp" in front (wife's garden cart - this is my 6' x 8' brush bucket, and I'd promised her to make it easier to load than the "V 1.0" version) - I also didn't want to get a bunch of crap inside, hence the (hopefully) hermetic welds in most areas ... Steve

Not helping the economic recovery, Steve by putting the local metal polishing outfits out of business.

Terry

 

[BukitCase]

Prob'ly not Terry, but it sure makes the paint stick/look better, plus if I DIDN'T do that then Sodo would hafta find somebody ELSE ta pick on

'nuther thing - I pretty much NEVER worry about my welds this way - I built that brush bucket out of 2" .095 wall tubing, trussed all 3 sides, skinned it with 14 ga. sheet, intending it as an "upgrade" to a "found material" frame I'd used for years - I fish plated the tubing with 1/2" flat bar where it contacts the loader bucket so it wouldn't buckle there, figured it'd hold me and a load of brush/hedge trimmings (works good for cleaning up fir trees too, I can stand at the end of it 12 feet in the air, cut off a limb and throw it over my shoulder, repeat... then I climb over the pile and back down the loader arms, drive to the burn pile (or woodshed if limbs are big enough) and I only handle stuff once or twice.

Last month I got a few loads of firewood, guy was scraping by and not really set up so we unloaded his trailer into that "brush" bucket, got it so heavy the curl cylinders wouldn't pick it up but my "shiny metal" welds held just fine for about 3 TIMES the weight I'd intended.

Sorry for the hijack mx842, I'll try to be good now :ashamed:... Steve

 

[mx842]

Prob'ly not Terry, but it sure makes the paint stick/look better, plus if I DIDN'T do that then Sodo would hafta find somebody ELSE ta pick on

'nuther thing - I pretty much NEVER worry about my welds this way - I built that brush bucket out of 2" .095 wall tubing, trussed all 3 sides, skinned it with 14 ga. sheet, intending it as an "upgrade" to a "found material" frame I'd used for years - I fish plated the tubing with 1/2" flat bar where it contacts the loader bucket so it wouldn't buckle there, figured it'd hold me and a load of brush/hedge trimmings (works good for cleaning up fir trees too, I can stand at the end of it 12 feet in the air, cut off a limb and throw it over my shoulder, repeat... then I climb over the pile and back down the loader arms, drive to the burn pile (or woodshed if limbs are big enough) and I only handle stuff once or twice.

Last month I got a few loads of firewood, guy was scraping by and not really set up so we unloaded his trailer into that "brush" bucket, got it so heavy the curl cylinders wouldn't pick it up but my "shiny metal" welds held just fine for about 3 TIMES the weight I'd intended.

Sorry for the hijack mx842, I'll try to be good now :ashamed:... Steve

Awhh heck!! no worries I sometimes get caught bushwacking a thread now and again myself. Speaking of bushwacking.....that's a mighty fine looking brush wagon you have there. I don't have a tractor with a front loader on it but I can see what you have there could be very useful. Nice, neat build too.